Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Camp followers for evil players

Hi there, I hav just sent this to Larian via their feedback function on the website, but I figured it might be interesting what the rest of the community thinks about this issue:



What I am talking about is the lack of interesting (or rather the complete lack) of evil camp followers when you choose to invade the grove and later help Nere kill the gnomes in Grymforge.

If you freed Volo, he will be recaptured at the goblin camp party and, presumably, hates you forever from then on.

Halsin is an incredibly well-designed character that is incompatible (as far as I know) with the evil path.

Barcus Wroot is a gnome with an incredibly interesting side storyline, which you just completely lose if he dies at Grymforge. (If there is actually a way to recruit him even if you are on Nere’s side and play utterly evil, I haven’t found it yet)

Finally, not even Minthara stays at your camp after convincing her to not kill you after the party, which is really a shame. If you have something planned for her after, that is awesome of course, but that doesn’t solve the overlying issue that:

There is a complete lack of camp followers for those who chose to play evil, which disincentivises players to play an otherwise well-designed story. Compared to the 3 humanoid camp followers we can already acquire when playing good, this feels like we lose out on so many interesting stories.

To sum up, my suggestion is to introduce at least one camp follower that people who play the evil route can acquire. We want to play evil, but we don’t like feeling as if we can’t experience the game fully because we chose a certain path. Being evil doesn’t have to mean being lonely.

A character who is already in the game and who I think would make a great follower is the goblin Sazza. Sure, good players can free her too, and evil people might not care about her at all, but she is such a cool character that it would be a shame to never see her again after convincing Minthara to not kill her. It would be awesome if she could get a mini-storyline as well, similar to Barcus Wroot, that incentivises evil players to help her, and good players to not help her. So she could be a kind of counterpart to Barcus Wroot, for more evil-aligned playthroughs.


I know this is a lot I am asking here, but I genuinely believe that this would add SO much to an evil-aligned playthrough. Once again: evil doesn’t have to mean lonely.



So, what do you forum people think? If this is something that a lot of people agree with, it would be great to let Larian know.
Anyway, thanks for reading, bye-bye!

Nere would make a good camp follower for a couple of my evil characters. Sazza I think should be an option for anyone who frees her.

Personally I don't want the camp too crowded no matter what type of character I am playing. One male and one female option for each path is more than enough for me, but more options are always welcome.

How about Shovel? He could be to camp what "Cespenar" was to pocket plane. ;-)

definitely +1 here
I really hope minthara will be a companion at full release

Yeah, there really needs some love to the party camp for evil players. Even in the case of the ones that aren't locked off for walking the evil path (like Halsin and Barcus) I felt like the game was punishing me none-too-subtlety. Volo basically flat-out tells you he's going to pun quill to paper and tell the world what a horrible person you are, and if you have the ability to speak with animals, the dog will tell you that he 'hopes the goblins aren't your friends' Really a dearth of content in that area if you choose to play as an evil character.

As for candidates? Sazza seems like a good one if you spare her Minthara's wrath. She already knows you aren't 100% what you seem to be already, and she's kind of in a situation where it would be best to make herself scarce. Going with the player could work with some added/reworked dialogue.

Abdirak could be another candidate. He's evil, but friendly. He's not strictly aligned with the absolute but doesn't have any hang-ups working with them either. He expresses disappointment in the goblins and as he's basically a mercenary, I can see him wanting to 'move on' giving him a place in your camp could possibly be an option?

Maybe some sort of Zhentish merchant if you developed your relationship with them?

Minthara....IDK, I really want her as a companion, to balance out the loss of Wyll if you ally with her. Considering what we know about the datamined companions, 'lack of party member options on the evil side' might be a whole 'nother kettle of fish Larian will hopefully deal with, and IMO Minthara fits the role of an evil npc that could step up to fill gaps left by good companions better than any other options right now IMO. And I know I'd be pretty disappointed if the only exclusively evil-path romance option was only a camp follower, and not a full companion like every other romance option so far.

FYI if you save Wroot first and then help Minthara, he'll be at the party...and then give you a piece of his mind before leaving.

The one hint to Minthara actually being coded as a companion is that she's, erm, stripped to her underwear when you loot the armor off her body. I think she might also carry a camping supply pack, though I am not as certain on that one. An argument against this is that Karlach doesn't get the same treatment, although she is given a different body type that might not be fully implemented yet as far as being armorless goes, and that she was given a subtitle that companions don't really have but certain key NPCs do. Still, having an alternative, evil-er cleric that is probably War Domain to have contrast with Shadowheart would certainly not go amiss, so here's hoping.

Perhaps it's indeed Nere who'd become a replacement for Halsin if you side with the Absolute, or maybe I also hope that following the githyanki route has its own outcomes, at least for a githyanki character / someone who manages to get into Lae'zel's good graces.

Minthara is cool and i would like to have her in my party ...
But she really dont solve anything. O_o

I mean when you join Goblins you loose Wyll and got tons of disaprovement from Gale ...
Cleric is great but dont seems to be good replacement for Wizard and Warlock. :-/

Take it even one step futher ...
If you play evil Fighter, you have Lae'zel, Shadow and Minthara ... you obviously killed Astaripn since he attacked you ... but then your party becpme Fighter, Fighter, Cleric, Cleric. :-/

Why is that obvious? Well, if you equate being evil to mindlessly killing everyone in sight, it is. But I think good or neutral characters can viably kill in self-defence too. Or even as part of an eye for an eye attitude.

Truly interesting evil characters, that is to say, smart evil characters, will keep others alive so they can be betrayed, blackmailed, used as pawns, etc.

In the case of Astarion, his vampirism is weakness that a smart evil character should want to exploit for her/his own nefarious purposes. Hopefully the game will accomodate such lines of thinking.

The answer is right there ... you quoted it:



I just dont like it ... there is nothing deeper in it.
If you want to play character who takes with him someone who litteraly put a knife on his, or hers throat ... then be my guest ... but every single one of my characters WILL kill Astarion right at their first meeting, bcs he threatened their life and that is unforgiveable ... especialy in situation where the agressor is apologizing in the way Astarion does, bcs he dont seem to mean it, more like it seems he is mocking us, and that is second time in mere minutes where he crossed the line.
Well, maybe except Paladin, or Monk those will knock him out.

Oh not at all ...
Simple elimination of threats.

Yup.

Depends ... truly interesting and start evil characters in my opinion should allways calculate in order to find a way to use someone to their benefit ... yes ... but they should also calculate if that person is worth the risk ... someone who dares to attack you is not, at least not for me.

Maybe ...
But in your first meeting you dont *know* about his Vampirism ... actualy if you ignore the dead Boar, you never find out.

And why exactly should "smart evil character" examine any dead animal you meet?

Agreed ...
I know people love redemption stories for Evil companions ... i personaly love corruption stories for Good companions ... hope we get at least one. :3

While I would surely love Minthara to become a companion that we can actually have in our party, what I am more concerned with in this particular thread is camp followers who liven up our camp and have backstories of their own, but are not recruitable in that sense (like Barcus Wroot, the unfortunate deep gnome).

Such characters would likely require less development time and work than fully fleshed out companions, and I think they are important to your game experience in a different way. In short, they make your camp feel more alive, they make your actions (whichever you are taking) feel more impactful, and of course its always nice to have company.

Something I have been pointing out for a while- It's even worse if you consider that Origins characters are playable. If you are playing, for ex-Asterion, you only get two 'evil' companions as party members+Gale if you side with the goblins. Minthara and Lae'zel are your only romance options, and what's worse-according to the datamined stuff That's awful.

The game sorely needs more companions and class/role redundancy with companions. In BG I you had a million party members to choose from, practically drowning in choice. BGII had less, but there was still a lot of redundancy, and lots of characters as multiclasses. But in BGII we only get one cleric, one wizard, one rogue, etc, with other popular archetypes not even represented at all-no paladin, no druid, monk, sorcerer, etc.

But to the OP's concern, yeah. There really should be some evil camp followers. The fact that there aren't even one, while good players get tons....is a little concerning for the future IMO. I really hope that Larian has something that they are keeping under wraps for the time being to surprise us with, because so far the evil roleplay experience has been much less developed than the alternatives in BGIII.

There is still hope ...
Maybe (and i know its quite wild speculation, but still ... maybe) in the final release we will get option to hire certain characters as Mercenaries ...

Characters like Aradin, Sazza, Crusher, Abidrak, Minthara, Ragzlin, Gut, etc.
Dont get me wrong here, i would be thrilled to have any of them as a regular companion ... BUT if that would not be the case, Mercenary (fullfilling the role you need, but have not much to say, and dont provide any personal side quests) would be acceptable.

Also, we really still dont have at least 4 more locations (or one wich will sustain them all) and that is Mountain Pass, Githyanki Creche, Shadowcursed Lands ... and Moonrise Tower.
Even tho to be completely honest, i would personaly preffer if Moonrise Tower would be completely separated from all other zones, and we would have chance to have all our companions (and items) gathered. by the time we get there.
But the point is ... nobody knows who, or what is waiting for us there.

Maybe Larian will allow us to get followers outside act 1. For example, drider that minthara speaks of sounds pretty fun

I bet they will ...
But not the drider ... i mean that character would need his own character sheet for equipment to at least make a little bit of sense. :-/

That would be awesome!

+1
I've been having a hard time making evil choices when I consider how the option may make me lose out on content (like camp-companions, or NPCs in the world). A lot of evil decisions involve slaughtering people indiscriminately, which is a bit "chaotic stupid," and the evil NPCs with whom you would collaborate lack characterization, in the sense that their evil is either a "chaotic stupid" kind of evil with the Goblins, or a mustache-twirling kind of evil, with the Drow True Souls we encounter. That doesn't really give them individual personality, so to speak. Volo is more than the "good guy" here; he's a confident storyteller, a goofball, and a bit of a moron. What else do we know about Minthara that isn't already encompassed under "Evil Servant of the Absolute"? Outside of loot, there isn't really an incentive to be evil beyond "My character is evil." I think the lack of camp-companions are part of a larger problem in implementing the evil options. Is evil completely lonely? I don't think so.

Admittedly, I haven't made a lot of evil decisions due to the above factors (there's still youtube), so I might be selling the path short. Would like anyone to correct me on things I got wrong.

+1

The evil path could be interpreted as infiltrating the cult to understand your condition as they are directly tied to it / destroy it from the inside, or as you playing an opportunist with little regard for lives of others. Or you are just protective of goblins and don't like to see them pushed around. Or your character has a distaste towards tieflings and/or druids for one reason or another. You could rationalize the evil path in many ways, though I certainly agree that it requires a lot more work to be a suitable alternative. I am hopeful we'll get a githyanki route too, for the more orderly and constructive villains to pick.

+1 to Githyanki route for more orderly and constructive villains. Since there's no alignment system in place, it could be nice for the various evil factions to represent the many different flavors of evil, and for the faction(s) you choose to help you flavor your character. Off the top of my head, we've got Goblins and Duergar Slaver Rebels as a more chaotic evil, the Absolute and Sharrans as being a more neutral evil, and the Gith as a more lawful evil (though none should be "limited" by such an alignment interpretation). Some forms of evil are more subtle and insidious, like controlling and manipulating the lives and minds of others, while others are more opportunistic (with varying degrees of moral bounds), and still others are rabid and murderous. As it stands today however, there is a woeful lack of content-based incentive to be evil, forcing the player to do the heavy lifting in justifying any action, as opposed to reacting to incentives and consequences. Faction-based camp followers may be a way around this to an extent.

I guess you could also then follow with the tieflings/maybe Selunites as chaotic good, druids/Harpers as neutral good, and the BG grand duke / Flaming Fist as lawful good. We'll see how it all comes together in the end. I was a little dissapointed that the shadow druids don't let you side with them even if you want to, that would make for an interesting neutral evil outcome where you eliminate the more outsider-tolerant druids, force out/kill the tieflings and shut down the grove, perhaps with a different situation regarding the goblin raid as well. Maybe we'll at least get to visit the Cloakwood in the later acts? It's on the map.