|
|
|
Volunteer Moderator
|
Volunteer Moderator
Joined: Aug 2021
|
Curiously, to anyone who likes the idea of a questionnaire for custom characters at creation... what do you imagine that you will get out of it?
I don't mean in vague terms, but in specifics. Is it going to learn that your character's stepfather was an alcoholic who abused the family and then give you a chance later in the campaign to confront him?
[...]
In other words, it's not going to craft a unique story based on a few questions. I agree with your final point, but the game doesn't need to go that far to enrich its experience. I think it's cool to have situational dialogue options linked to class and race. It feels like the game acknowledging my character; I choose those dialogue lines almost every time they come up. BG3 could use your background a lot more to enrich dialogue options. Let's take your first example. The situation with your stepfather gave you a profound distaste for alchohol and its effects. What if, when Wyll offers you a drink at the party, you could forcefully say no? It wouldn't take much to include, since Wyll already has a response to refusal, and it would add that much more depth and color to dialogues. Ragnarok is right in saying dialogues options are limited at the moment. In fact, BG3 doesn't need to add a questionnaire (though the idea is appealing) as it already has unexploited material. Playing a ranger with the Sanctified Stalker favored enemy will garner no reaction from the druids, even though your whole thing is hunting down their enemies. And while the backgrounds already play into inspiration in an interesting way, they could also enhance dialogues.
|
|
|
|
|
|
enthusiast
|
|
enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2020
|
Wouldn't it be a possible fix to let the main character use a 'default' background from one of the origins ? Like either you do the very generic [baldurian] Tav, or you can choose backgrounds roughly corresponding with the origins but without the class/story specific stuff. E.g. background from astarion : evil , rich , city dweller. Lazael: non human race, evil , warrior focused. etc. Not sure if it could work but at least in dialogue it would allow them to recycle a lot without needing extra writing.
Ideally off course we get a Baahlspawn equivalent in which our custom main character get a true backstory without being a mere generic insertion in our origin companions story. I really resent the fact that custom characters will prob be mere generic bystanders in the main story.
|
|
|
|
|
|
veteran
|
|
veteran
Joined: Feb 2021
|
Thanks for the mention MrFuji ^.^ To those interested, here was the throw-together of the concept (Written with pseudo-Larian style and dialogues ^.^):
((The screen is black))
Narrator: The stinging fades, and the memory of it passes swiftly from your mind. You feel disoriented; your senses are dull and you can't tell where you are.
Voice: “You are home; you are safe. You grew up here. Look around you; tell me what you see.”
1) Just a single, isolated homestead, in the middle of nowhere... but it was home.
2) This is the little village where I was born...
3) This is the city I grew up in...
4) This is my island; the roll of waves is home for me.
5) The mountains where I trained... the order.
6) We moved around a lot, but wherever it went, the caravan was home for me, really...
7) [Githyanki] My creche, where I first drew the blood of my clutch mates to survive...
((Player picks 4. The screen fades in to a nondescript island setting, with white sand beaches, a small township and the dazzling blue of the sea of swords. The scene shows people moving about the little township, while the character stands on the beach, looking out to sea. The details are indistinct at this stage.))
Narrator: As your vision clears, you realise where you are.
Voice: “Yes, home. You're safe here; you can relax. Remember what it was like, growing up?”
1) Heh... I was always a bit of a trouble-maker. If there was mischief, I was probably at the centre of it.
2) I liked to keep to myself, and enjoy the quiet moments. People said I was always daydreaming.
3) I always like to try to help out where I could, even when I was little.
4) I had so many friends!
5) I was such a terrible flirt, even back then. It got me into trouble sometimes.
6) I remember the grazes and the bruises. I was always scrapping, or picking fights.
7) [Githyanki] T'ch, relaxing was for the feeble. I learned to praise Valkith, follow orders, and slit the throat of any who got in my way. I made my first kill when I was a yearling. I remember it. Vividly.
((Player picks 1. The people in the scene grow more defined. The player is then free to walk around and talk to people. The other NPCs greet the character by name, and respond to them in styles based on the previous answer, but generally all friendly and positive – treating the PC as though they are still a youth. The PC is able to engage in a few various conversations that let them respond in a small handful of ways that help define their character a little more; the game can remember these - these do not create restrictions, but rather can open up extra options later on.
-Movement tutorials, social interaction tutorials, skill check tutorials and inventory management tutorials are presented here (the exact skills presented might be from a pool of a few options based on the PC's answers – if they are a daydreamer who goes exploring, they might make athletics and perception checks, for example, but all choices will cover stealth, slight of hand and persuasion in some form, at minimum), while the player explores the town and is guided to talk to a few specific npcs. After this is done, a new NPC runs up to the player, indistinct; game movement slows before they approach the PC.))
Voice: “There was someone very important to you there, wasn't there? Tell me about them...”
1) My sister was always looking out for me...
2) My brother and I were always close...
3) My best friend
4) There was this one girl...
5) There was this one boy...
6) I don't really really think of anyone from back then any more.
7) [Githyanki] My Kith'rak trained me hard. I tried to kill them and assume their position many times. At each failure, they taught me to try harder.
((Player picks 1, and the game fades into the character creator to let them design the figure, who then comes into clarity when they confirm it and finishes running up to them. The figure's dialogue is a culmination of several of the options picked so far, as well as providing a (possibly fictional – this is a tadpole dream, after all) vector away from 'safety' and to Baldur's gate, or to a location within it if the character is a Baldurian))
“[PlayerName], There you are! I swear, Targon is going to give you a hiding if he finds out it was you who let his chickens out and spooked them.” She sighs. “Or, I guess, if he can prove it, since he thinks it was you already. It was you, wasn't it? You're... Oh, never mind, come on, there's no time! The ship to Baldur's Gate is leaving in ten minutes, and if we don't go now... you're not going to make me wait another three months to go birthday shopping, are you? Come on!”
((As the player follows after the figure, the dream begins to break apart; storms and violent weather set in and aspects begin to tear and shatter. Glimpses of Nautiloid themed matter begin to glimpse through, and as the dream loses cohesion, we crash out into what is now the current intro. It could give the subtle, hinted at impression that if this process had completed smoothly, we might have eventually woken up in BG with no real knowledge of our infection, possibly, if that is indeed the case.))
This was just a quick rough up of the concept - the idea is that these details would draw from a restricted set of possibilities that are meant to represent "As close as the tadpole can do in a short amount of time", so it's in-universe going to be not quite right, to cover the game's inability to perfectly map things for every individual player, but it still lets them define some things about their character that can potentially come up later. It also lets the game potentially set up some specific character protagonist hooks. For those who don't want to define their characters even this far, there might be options to not answer, or non-committal answers that leave the space grey and undefined even up to the point where the dream fails - but this would likely just mean that the game cannot set up any hooks or elements that tie your character to the world, since you didn't give it anything. The core idea is that in universe this is the tadpole trying to create a convincing narrative to cover over your infestation, while out of universe the mechanical structure is both a tutorial for the player, but also a chance for the game to learn about the sort of character you're playing. That's awesome! Tnank you I hope Larian will do something like that Me too. Considerable work, but it would REALLY add flavor to our characters. Having forced backgrounds really messed with me when I created my Drow sorcerer con artist. It didn't fit the background I had in my head at all, and I simply had to pretend it didn't pop up. Same with my human druid woman from Icewind Dale. Just because she's human doesn't mean she's from BG.
Last edited by GM4Him; 24/06/22 12:04 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
veteran
|
|
veteran
Joined: May 2019
|
Thanks for the mention MrFuji ^.^ To those interested, here was the throw-together of the concept (Written with pseudo-Larian style and dialogues ^.^):
((The screen is black))
Narrator: The stinging fades, and the memory of it passes swiftly from your mind. You feel disoriented; your senses are dull and you can't tell where you are.
Voice: “You are home; you are safe. You grew up here. Look around you; tell me what you see.”
1) Just a single, isolated homestead, in the middle of nowhere... but it was home.
2) This is the little village where I was born...
3) This is the city I grew up in...
4) This is my island; the roll of waves is home for me.
5) The mountains where I trained... the order.
6) We moved around a lot, but wherever it went, the caravan was home for me, really...
7) [Githyanki] My creche, where I first drew the blood of my clutch mates to survive...
((Player picks 4. The screen fades in to a nondescript island setting, with white sand beaches, a small township and the dazzling blue of the sea of swords. The scene shows people moving about the little township, while the character stands on the beach, looking out to sea. The details are indistinct at this stage.))
Narrator: As your vision clears, you realise where you are.
Voice: “Yes, home. You're safe here; you can relax. Remember what it was like, growing up?”
1) Heh... I was always a bit of a trouble-maker. If there was mischief, I was probably at the centre of it.
2) I liked to keep to myself, and enjoy the quiet moments. People said I was always daydreaming.
3) I always like to try to help out where I could, even when I was little.
4) I had so many friends!
5) I was such a terrible flirt, even back then. It got me into trouble sometimes.
6) I remember the grazes and the bruises. I was always scrapping, or picking fights.
7) [Githyanki] T'ch, relaxing was for the feeble. I learned to praise Valkith, follow orders, and slit the throat of any who got in my way. I made my first kill when I was a yearling. I remember it. Vividly.
((Player picks 1. The people in the scene grow more defined. The player is then free to walk around and talk to people. The other NPCs greet the character by name, and respond to them in styles based on the previous answer, but generally all friendly and positive – treating the PC as though they are still a youth. The PC is able to engage in a few various conversations that let them respond in a small handful of ways that help define their character a little more; the game can remember these - these do not create restrictions, but rather can open up extra options later on.
-Movement tutorials, social interaction tutorials, skill check tutorials and inventory management tutorials are presented here (the exact skills presented might be from a pool of a few options based on the PC's answers – if they are a daydreamer who goes exploring, they might make athletics and perception checks, for example, but all choices will cover stealth, slight of hand and persuasion in some form, at minimum), while the player explores the town and is guided to talk to a few specific npcs. After this is done, a new NPC runs up to the player, indistinct; game movement slows before they approach the PC.))
Voice: “There was someone very important to you there, wasn't there? Tell me about them...”
1) My sister was always looking out for me...
2) My brother and I were always close...
3) My best friend
4) There was this one girl...
5) There was this one boy...
6) I don't really really think of anyone from back then any more.
7) [Githyanki] My Kith'rak trained me hard. I tried to kill them and assume their position many times. At each failure, they taught me to try harder.
((Player picks 1, and the game fades into the character creator to let them design the figure, who then comes into clarity when they confirm it and finishes running up to them. The figure's dialogue is a culmination of several of the options picked so far, as well as providing a (possibly fictional – this is a tadpole dream, after all) vector away from 'safety' and to Baldur's gate, or to a location within it if the character is a Baldurian))
“[PlayerName], There you are! I swear, Targon is going to give you a hiding if he finds out it was you who let his chickens out and spooked them.” She sighs. “Or, I guess, if he can prove it, since he thinks it was you already. It was you, wasn't it? You're... Oh, never mind, come on, there's no time! The ship to Baldur's Gate is leaving in ten minutes, and if we don't go now... you're not going to make me wait another three months to go birthday shopping, are you? Come on!”
((As the player follows after the figure, the dream begins to break apart; storms and violent weather set in and aspects begin to tear and shatter. Glimpses of Nautiloid themed matter begin to glimpse through, and as the dream loses cohesion, we crash out into what is now the current intro. It could give the subtle, hinted at impression that if this process had completed smoothly, we might have eventually woken up in BG with no real knowledge of our infection, possibly, if that is indeed the case.))
This was just a quick rough up of the concept - the idea is that these details would draw from a restricted set of possibilities that are meant to represent "As close as the tadpole can do in a short amount of time", so it's in-universe going to be not quite right, to cover the game's inability to perfectly map things for every individual player, but it still lets them define some things about their character that can potentially come up later. It also lets the game potentially set up some specific character protagonist hooks. For those who don't want to define their characters even this far, there might be options to not answer, or non-committal answers that leave the space grey and undefined even up to the point where the dream fails - but this would likely just mean that the game cannot set up any hooks or elements that tie your character to the world, since you didn't give it anything. The core idea is that in universe this is the tadpole trying to create a convincing narrative to cover over your infestation, while out of universe the mechanical structure is both a tutorial for the player, but also a chance for the game to learn about the sort of character you're playing. I've said it before but I'll say it again: this would be so awesome to have for our custom PCs. I will very exclusively be playing only custom PCs, and I do not care for playing an 'empty-suit' PC.
|
|
|
|
|
|
member
|
|
OP
member
Joined: Aug 2021
|
Thank you for the threads
Camera and control scheme is also an issue i wrote about, i'm glad that so many people think the same
add hexblade warlock, pls
|
|
|
|
|
|
veteran
|
|
veteran
Joined: Aug 2020
|
Curiously, to anyone who likes the idea of a questionnaire for custom characters at creation... what do you imagine that you will get out of it?
I don't mean in vague terms, but in specifics. Is it going to learn that your character's stepfather was an alcoholic who abused the family and then give you a chance later in the campaign to confront him? Is it going to learn that a goblin poked out your eyeball and then give you a chance for revenge?
What do you imagine you're going to be able to answer that will somehow enter the game in a meaningful way?
At most, you'll be able to say that you had ties with thieves and then later some thieves will acknowledge your thief tag. And that only works if those thieves are already in the game.
In other words, it's not going to craft a unique story based on a few questions. Well specifically, these sorts of questions can help contextualize the world for you early on. So depending on the answers I have available to select, I can get a feel for the length and breadth of the setting. It can also spark inspiration for characters. When I first played Pillars of Eternity, I had no idea what options I had available for me, what sort of characters I COULD play. But it presented a dialogue with a bunch of options to choose from, and from those options I created one of the most unique characters I had ever made, a character I still deeply adore. This is important not only for people who are used to coming up with their own deep, rich characters in their heads, but also for people who aren't as good at it, or who just aren't familiar with the genre or setting. I also don't truly expect my answers to enter the game, but another good thing such a questionaire provides is that it tells us a bit about the scope of the game's story. By that I mean, it gives us an idea of what sorts of backstories the game probably won't contradict.
|
|
|
|
|
|
member
|
|
member
Joined: Mar 2021
|
The way it works in Guild Wars 2 is that you get a series of questions, which change slightly based on your race and profession:
1. Profession-specific question (no impact on personal story; determines non-ranger's starting equipment or ranger's pet)
2. Personality-related question (no impact on personal story; determines starting personality)
3. 1st race-specific background question (determines Chapter I of personal story)
4. 2nd race-specific background question (determines Chapter II of personal story for non-charr; determines the NPC story partner for charr)
5. 3rd race-specific background question (determines Chapter II of personal story for charr; no impact on personal story for non-charr)
The chapters are really just a series of side quests. I had a character who never knew their parents, but found a letter with a clue about them and that lead me to meet up with an NPC somewhere who had some information and so on until eventually I found the graves of my parents.
It doesn't have to be as complex as that in BG3, but it would be nice to be able to explore your character a little more. I'm not a fan of the blank slate character that just stands there and reacts to the NPCs.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jhe'stil Kith'rak
|
|
Jhe'stil Kith'rak
Joined: Oct 2021
|
+1 to what you're saying, mercurial_ann.
Why give us an in-depth character creator if we are going to be pushed into a specific character personality for the sake of content? I liked it in DOS2 because the game was clearly built on the idea of origin characters. I am worried about its overuse in BG3. I want to be able to create a custom character without signing away my ability to experience an additional game-long questline that makes my character personally invested in the world, without which I am an empty husk that has no connection to the world beyond my tadpole. It's like one of the only ways to make the story of BG3 feel more alive and personal is to make sure you are playing an origin character (based on leaks and datamining on youtube), but then you're shoehorned into playing a Lae'zel, or a Wyll, or an Astarion, or a Gale, or a Shadowheart. Maybe our backgrounds can provide for different connections to the world around us? Idk, but a lot of the suggestions here are pretty good.
Remember the human (This is a forum for a video game):
|
|
|
|
|
|
stranger
|
|
stranger
Joined: Apr 2022
|
D&D is all about the Character. Remember in grade school at lunch time marking up our character sheets. Asking ourselves how would my Chararacter act in this instance.
I think having the simple Personal Characteristics from the Players Handbook would bring so much life to the Character and could even lead to dialog options.
Personality Traits, Ideals, Bonds and Flaws from the players handbook. These Personal Characterstics could just be there to remind us of our Characters modivations and how they should act in a situation. There is so much in Chapter 4 of the Players Handbook that if Larian wasn't thinking about it from the begining then I think it would be entirely too much to impliment so many dialog options now. Maybe a DLC or BG4.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jhe'stil Kith'rak
|
|
Jhe'stil Kith'rak
Joined: Oct 2021
|
Also want to clarify: Not against the origin system. I will do a playthrough as an origin character (probably Gale because wizard), and I anticipate enjoying it thoroughly. But that doesn't change the fact that I am thoroughly against how the origin system is used to neuter the custom character experience or used as a justification for such neutering. Honestly, back in DOS2, there should have been a "Custom Origin" that used story beats in other origins to generate a more "intimate" (in the proximity sense, not the romantic sense) world experience. For example, if you wanted to be a lone wolf mercenary but not Ifan, the Lone Wolves could recognize you in the same way but not as Ifan. If you wanted to be a Lizard Noble but not Red Prince, characters should have borrowed some story beats from Red Prince to generate some semblance of bond to the world. If you wanted to be an Elf that could integrate into the tribe, but not Sebille, that should be an option by borrowing preexisting story beats. In BG3, the biggest attributes I can think of as creating a potential custom bond to the world would be race, class, and background. But I'm not sure if the tags really cut it at this point, and I am absolutely certain that the Baldurian tag means absolutely nothing to me as a player looking for my place in Larian's world.
Remember the human (This is a forum for a video game):
|
|
|
|
|
|
member
|
|
OP
member
Joined: Aug 2021
|
Not against origin system either, i think of shadowheart or astarion for my origin playthrough. And as you mentioned, origin system now is built around neglecting custom character, I want both systems to work together
add hexblade warlock, pls
|
|
|
|
|
|
addict
|
|
addict
Joined: Oct 2020
|
Honestly, back in DOS2, there should have been a "Custom Origin" that used story beats in other origins to generate a more "intimate" (in the proximity sense, not the romantic sense) world experience. For example, if you wanted to be a lone wolf mercenary but not Ifan, the Lone Wolves could recognize you in the same way but not as Ifan. If you wanted to be a Lizard Noble but not Red Prince, characters should have borrowed some story beats from Red Prince to generate some semblance of bond to the world. If you wanted to be an Elf that could integrate into the tribe, but not Sebille, that should be an option by borrowing preexisting story beats. In BG3, the biggest attributes I can think of as creating a potential custom bond to the world would be race, class, and background. But I'm not sure if the tags really cut it at this point, and I am absolutely certain that the Baldurian tag means absolutely nothing to me as a player looking for my place in Larian's world. ^ THIS!
Hoot hoot, stranger! Fairly new to CRPGs, but I tried my best to provide some feedback regardless! <3 Read it here: My Open Letter to Larian
|
|
|
|
|
|
stranger
|
|
stranger
Joined: Jul 2022
|
It would be great with more flavor to the ordinary custom custom character. And maybe imposible to implement now. Like other also wrote.
But maybe something more like some more tags for background… some added dialog would not be to late…
Maybe a background tag could trigger some unique dialog in just some situations.
|
|
|
|
|
|
member
|
|
OP
member
Joined: Aug 2021
|
Chubblot recently released a video about initial Larian plans - our custom character was a narrator! It sounded so cool, it's an ultimate feature for feeling the connection to your character, but they took it away giving nothing in return. And now is a blank sheet
add hexblade warlock, pls
|
|
|
|
|
|
Van'tal
Unregistered
|
|
Van'tal
Unregistered
|
D&D is all about the Character. Remember in grade school at lunch time marking up our character sheets. Asking ourselves how would my Chararacter act in this instance.
I think having the simple Personal Characteristics from the Players Handbook would bring so much life to the Character and could even lead to dialog options.
Personality Traits, Ideals, Bonds and Flaws from the players handbook. These Personal Characterstics could just be there to remind us of our Characters modivations and how they should act in a situation. There is so much in Chapter 4 of the Players Handbook that if Larian wasn't thinking about it from the begining then I think it would be entirely too much to impliment so many dialog options now. Maybe a DLC or BG4. YES! A custom background creator would be spot on! Type in your own descriptions and title, choose traits, ideals, bonds, flaws, and the game picks custom inspirations accordingly.
|
|
|
|
|
|
veteran
|
|
veteran
Joined: Aug 2020
|
The game entirely fails to make us and our character feel any connection to the world, and that's a bad thing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Dec 2020
|
Good lord, that's a trip down memory lane. I made those posts in that thread NEARLY AN ENTIRE YEAR AGO and I don't think anything has actually changed in regards to custom backgrounds. I don't think anything in regards to this topic has even been said in the panels from hell since then either.
Last edited by Saito Hikari; 10/07/22 08:00 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
