Originally Posted by Rhobar121
Considering how much you liked pathfinder it's a bit weird. Enemy stats have absolutely nothing to do with pnp.
Why then should larian stick to them too?
I don't really care about mob stats and how much they are in line with 5e.
It does not matter at all, and I used the kobolds as an example of a banal enemy that is not a threat.
How is the fight to be interesting and interesting if most of the fights in the game are to be trivial enough for you to have 6-7 fights to rest. This means that at least 2/3 of these fights will not be the slightest challenge. In most fights you are limited to only cantrips which again means that the fight is extremely boring.
And that's the definition of trash mob.
What should I care about, even if each enemy in the game is unique, it doesn't suddenly make the fight challenging or interesting.
This is supposed to be a TACTICAL RPG game, not some 5e simulator.

OK. Here is where you are missing what I'm saying. You think, "Lots of fights = trash mobs and boring uninteresting fights." This is where you are missing the mark.

Right now, in BG3, Larian has literally turned imps into what you say you hate; TRASH MOBS. Imps are designed in D&D for the purpose of facing a full party of 4 Level 1 characters. 1 imp = 4 level 1 characters. 3 imps, therefore, = something more like 12 level 1 characters or maybe 6 level 2 characters or 4 level 3 characters - give or take.

What Larian has done is, "Hmmm. 3 imps are too tough. Guess we'll snip their tails and not even allow them to fly up in the air and give them normal weapons and strip them of invisibility and resistance." In other words, BG3 Imps = Trash Mobs. Boring. Uninteresting. Exactly what you are telling me that you hate and you don't want.

So, instead of Larian creating reasonable encounters with real Level 1 enemies like lemures and dretches, they've stripped tougher enemies down to the level of these "trash mob" enemies and convinced you that you are actually fighting super tough CR 1 enemies. But, in the end, they are just trash mobs.

Then... to boot... you only face a few of these trash mobs 2-3 fights worth, and you are prompted and encouraged to end your day.

So, let's clear something up. If I fight the Phase Spider Matriarch and I'm beaten up badly. I don't care if all I did that day was run to the well and fight that Phase Spider Matriarch. She's a real nasty boss fight, and if all my PCs do that day is fight a Phase Spider Matriarch teleporting spitter witch and her babies, then that's all I do that day. I'm good with that because she's a major and powerful evil I've just taken down. It'd be like facing a dragon. If I face a dragon and that's all I do that day, I'm good. Same with the gith patrol. Dang! They're tough.

Here's where my issue comes in. I fight goblins at the village gate. I short rest and use potions to heal. I fight goblins at the south gate. I short rest and use potions to heal. I've got about half spell slots used. I fight ogres and use all my spell slots and have no more short rests. Either I use lots of potions to heal or I long rest. 0 other options really. And even if I do use potions to heal because I have a ton, I don't get spell slots back. And what's more, my companions are saying they're tired. And what's more, dialogues are only triggered at camp, so if I want to see them all, I need to long rest. And what's more, I'm practically maxed out already on encumbrance because I can only take party of 4 when I have 2 more sitting back at camp, and I've found so much useless junk that I should probably go sell it to lighten the load. Oh, and btw, I have SO much food that why shouldn't I rest at this point. Besides, nothing bad will happen and nothing will change. Goblins won't find the grove, the ritual will never finish, the fire won't ever go out on the inn, the gith will just wait for us on the road, etc. etc. etc. So I barely did anything in Moonhaven, and already I'm resting after 2 goblin fights and 1 ogre fight.

What I'm suggesting would change this. Instead, I fight goblins at the village gate. Presently, I've only got 200 Camping Supplies. It costs me 60 for 1 Long Rest. That's 1/3 of my total Camping Supplies for 1 rest. I defeat the goblins at the gate and SR, but only 2 party members need it. The rest I use lesser potions to heal a few hit points to full. half spell slots used. Only used 8 camping supplies out of 200. So, 192 left. Still 3 good LRs worth. I'm feeling good right now.

Fight goblins at south gate. SR. This time, all 4 need to use HP Recovery and potions. Fight ogres. Use all spell slots. SR. 2 PCs who didn't use all of their HP Recovery gain a considerable amount and I use a few lesser potions to heal them up the rest of the way. The other two used ALL their HP Recovery. You know what? I can just switch them out and bring in the 2 totally fresh companions sitting on their thumbs at camp. The adventure now continues. 2 new companions have fresh spell slots and maximum number of HP Recoveries remaining. The other 2 are not doing as good, but are full HP and some abilities reset because of SR.

I continue through Moonhaven - still the same day, mind you. Fought 2-3 battles and I can still keep going.

Stop. Notice, I haven't even suggested changing ANY encounters so far. All I'm changing is the rest mechanics.

Let's continue. Go up to windmill. Goblin encounter. Now I'm on fight 4. Goblins hurt me fairly good, and my two fresh companions need a SR. I don't have anymore for my 2 who have been already adventuring all day, but my two fresh companions have some. I can compensate by a few extra potions for those more tired companions while focusing primarily on HP Recovery for the fresh ones.

We continue. Fight sleeping bugbear. Fight bugbear and ogre. 2 more fights. Now up to 6. Still haven't changed ANY encounters in the game. Exactly the same game. Difference? I can continue my adventuring day. I SR again after the bugbear and ogre. Use a few more potions. Hmmm. Now I'm kinda at my limit. Next time I fight, I should probably rest unless things go really well.

And how many camping supplies have I used? 5 SR, I think it was. So, 40 camping supplies. I still have 160 left. Ah, but wait. I found 20 more while exploring. I'm up to 180. Still enough for 3 long rests.

The adventure continues. Still same day. Party is STILL going. Reach Risen Road. Head west. Do the entire inn area. Still going. I reach the gith patrol. AH! They're tough. I'm not ready for them. They are kicking my butt. 2 Options: Use that handy Flee feature that I love that they added, or keep fighting and hope I win and if not, that's what reload is for. Either way, I've done a LOT more in a single adventuring day than with the current mechanics.

And why? MORE OPTIONS. The resting mechanics are more robust and meaningful. There is strategy to them. SR is not just a quick heal button for the entire party whether party members need it or not. You can short rest 8 times, and each time only 1 character might use an HP Recovery. Don't you see? This encourages players to switch out their party members and keep going. Those at camp who are fresh can help continue the adventuring day because they have full SR HP Recovery to use. With the current mechanics, once you've used your 2 party SR limit, you're done. That's it. No more options to keep going besides spending potions to heal.

And besides all that, Warlocks and Monks and Druids get the shaft because of the hard SR limit of only 2. Warlocks get 2 spell slots at most in EA. 2. That's it. SR twice for 6 total. Lift that limit and Warlocks regain their spells A TON! This is partially what makes a warlock so freaking awesome as a spellcaster. It's what sets them apart from druids and wizards and sorcerers who get MORE spell slots per long rest.

So take Wyll. He's in your party and supporting you from behind with Eldritch Blast, and each fight he uses Hex and Witchbolt. You fight the goblins at both gates and the ogres. In between each fight, you short rest to reset his spell slots. He's taken no damage at all because he's hanging back. Wyll is still full strength at the end of 3 fights. Were those fights challenging and fun? Yes! Is Wyll kicking butt now and still able to keep going? Yes!

And you know what? Lae'zel too. Why? Each SR restores her Second Wind and Action Surge. After 3 fights, she's used mostly Second Wind to recover a good portion of her HP. She hasn't had to use many HP Recovery slots (or Hit Dice or whatever). So she's practically fresh too and can still keep going. Why? SR limit lifted. It's now costing SOMEthing - Camping supplies. So it's not TOTALLY free. But it's not killing the player by causing them to freak out about camping supplies. It's enough of a cost that it makes the player consider not continuing short resting at some point and maybe do a long rest.

THIS is what I'm trying to get across. Same fights. No different. What's different? Resting mechanic encourages short rests and continuing the adventuring day as opposed to resting mechanics encouraging 2-3 fights and then sleep your life away.

Last edited by GM4Him; 28/06/22 08:44 PM.