Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General Outside PHB sub-classes, please

Yes, the improved pact weapon is better than the normal +1 weapon. I know you don't see it that way, but it is.

This only changes when, as you mentioned, you find a better weapon, At which point you can make that your pact weapon, and although it won't benefit from the +1 it's still your spellcasting focus, so it's then up to you if you want to swap out improved pact weapon for a different invocation.

And all this discussion is really useless because it's highly unlikely that larian will ever add the Xan's guide content


Okay. This is a topic that's I've already discussed at length with other people over actual tabletops. So please listen carefully.

The opinion that there are "best" classes/subclasses and "worst" classes/subclasses is a toxic mindset used mainly by powergamers and munchkins (or someone who only plays Adventurer's League), and it needs to die already. Because if we go down that road, then everyone will only be playing a tiny handful of class/subclass options and it'll be sad and boring. Being best at combat isn't something that I think about when building the majority of characters, it's "does this fit the theme I was going for?"

It may seems like anything you want my dear, but i noticed you didnt answered either question ...
Should i presume you dont have any valid answer?

Well, who am i fooling ... obviously i do presume that, and i obviously i presumed that even earlier ...
Its all about mindset.

If you want to ignore everything you have unless its the "most effective" option, its up to you ... i certainly plan to play this game several times and i will most certainly appreciate that i can set my group of heroes differently at least a little for each play. :P

@Composer - I agree with a lot what you said. However l, imagine being a developer (either of PnP or adaptation). If you accept that “Players will optimize the fun out of games”, looking for ways to prevent or lessen this effect seems reasonable to me. Fun is what they are dealing with.

That’s why balance should be important from developer’s perspective. Trying to give players options of similar value is better for both players inclined to min-max, as well as those who have no inclination to do so.

And that’s why I think that they shouldn’t add the most powerful subclasses from later books.

@Piff - I don’t think saying that some subclasses have features that are comparatively weaker or stronger is being toxic. Calling someone munchkin for making mechanics based choices or being dismissive about someone trying to RP a weaker subclass would in fact be toxic. DND is for everyone.

For making a CHA-based melee caster, I prefer Swords Bard over Hexlade anyway, it's less powerful mechanically, but I like the versatility of Bard more.

I'd also love it if they added Beast Barbarian. No weapons, no armour, all rage.

More Pact Boons especially Pact of the Tome would be very welcome indeed. I just realized how boring and annoying it is to fill a character slot with a cleric or druid just for the very helpful Guidance cantrip...

I found out about a Raven Knight subclass. Awesome, I really want the class asap... I wish the game had finally come out and we were talking about DLC classes now... I can't wait to create a Raven Knight / Hexblade later. 😍

IMO role playing is creating a character that brings-to-life a vision that inspires you. If a player can't find a subclass that does that then no amount of player agency, cinematics, or story elements will compensate.

Limiting the subclasses to the PHB is a pretty lame goal.

So where should the limit be drawn then in accordance to development time and costs etc?

The one subclass I really want is the Swashbuckler rogue from Sword Coast Adventures (provided they add a good looking musketeer-style hat that doesn't make me bald alongside the subclass ).

For example, fewer companions = less glowing hair (unfortunately I couldn't resist the dig at Patch 8), fewer dialogues = fewer translations, etc. Another post already pointed out that there are also "good companions". Hopefully mostly finished... Overall, I would have preferred all (sub)classes + a revamped reaction system to be added first and additional fully animated and voiced companions as DLCs later, rather than apparently the other way around. Larian can also give it his own brand of scent and not just be a PHB copycat...
Offtopic: Not able to editing former comments is annoying. Hence my Top 5 subclasses.

Alchemist
Arcane Archer
Echo Knight (and or Raven Knight)
Hexblade
Ancestral Guardian

Right now I can replace desired class combos like Cleric / Alchemist with very similar ones like Cleric / Wizard and almost makeshift all of my future class combos with existing core classes except Echo Knight / Hexblade. I cannot replace the special game mechanics with the missing "Echo". I hope Larian doesn't just limit his own potential to just the PHB, visuals and associated workload for new companions I mentioned...

I would love to see the Divine Soul sorcerer, grave cleric and rogue mastermind be included in the full game.

I really like this
The Swift Blade (Ranger):

Swift Blades are fast, silent and deadly. Originally trained to take down Manacalon arcanists in a matter of seconds and vanish, they often worked together with Green Mages with great success.

Quick Steps (Level 3): The Swift Blade's speed increase by 10'. Additionally, opportunity attacks are made against them with disadvantage when they Dash.
Blade Dance (Level 3): While dual wielding melee weapons, the Swift Blade gains +2 AC.
Battle Focus (Level 7): The Swift Blade can enter a heightened state of battle focus until the start of their next turn, dealing additional weapon damage every time they attack.
Extra Attack (2) (Level 11): The Swift Blade can attack three times whenever taking the Attack action.

Well, Owlcat implemented many many more archetypes/subclasses with a fraction of the manpower that Larian has while using a system that is more complex than 5e. What is Larian doing with all of their resources?