Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback How to Enhance Immersion

The cartoonish/exaggerated aspect of animations is a bigger problem actually. Animations, colors, VFX, and *sometimes* dialogue are aggressively cartoonish and over-exaggerated. The colors look like someone set them to maximum saturation without a thought to definition or contrast. In the words of Mercurial_Ann, VFX, even for the most minor actions, are almost anime-like. Sometimes it can feel like DOS1 (which, while a fine game, is NOT a compliment). I am surprised this was not brought up in the "Making BG3 more like BG1+2" because this stylistic over-exaggeration is one of the most jarring things that needlessly separates itself from its IP predecessors. It breeds a lack of gravitas. I say gravitas because the game is not lacking in serious moments, but it is lacking in a serious way of "carrying" itself.

Need to clarify this: I don't hate the color. I don't hate animations. I don't hate VFX. All of the things I just complained about need to be tweaked slightly, not removed/overhauled. A SLIGHT toning down.

Get surprised by a high dex ambush, for some gank AI.

...or dig up a Mimic.

OK, very nice on the dancing...I guess Tasha's Hideous Laughter was too voice actor intensive, or did I miss that spell?

Improved soundscape...I will look forward to checking that out.

LOL...Upgraded elf animations and fighting. I guess that thread generated some love.

-Grittier, tonally darker colors with higher definition and contrast, a return to the colors before Patch 8, and increasing what people liked about it. People are rightfully mad. I've seen the words "darker," "realistic," "gritty," thrown around a lot and just want to add that those features are quite immersive. I've seen comparisons to DOS1, but I would also compare it to the Dragon Age series when they abandoned the whole dark fantasy angle for high fantasy, or how Oblivion feels after playing Morrowind. I thought the slightly darker palette actually drew nice parallels with BG2. Instead of increasing that, Patch 8 has veered HARD in the opposite direction.
-Companions should have something to say to Withers when revived, at least once per companion.
-If we are getting dynamic shadows based on sunlight through clouds, can the clouds change, or can the shadows move from pointing Westward to pointing Eastward over time? Or however Toril rotates with respect to the sun? If there can be full clouds and potentially rain effects, can there be a weather-marking of the days?
-Stop recycling story beats from DOS2. Saw this mentioned by GM4Him that playing DOS2 ruined BG3. It is that immersion breaking. I'll accept Astarion (Rogue Elf who puts a knife to your throat upon meeting, who has a dark personality, and is hunted by the one person who is either his freedom or his enslavement, depending on your choices) and the introduction as nice references to the predecessor game, but further story and companion similarities between DOS2 and BG3 will likely be met with frustration. I know it's late to say it, and many probably already have, but that's a mistake.
-Can there be spots in both the world and the Underdark to use a fishing rod at certain bodies of water to fish for food or items that could be buried at the bottom of bodies of water? Including beaches, rivers, lakes, ponds, etc. Not a minigame, more like the shovel. Probably a dex roll. Fishing could also provoke combat encounters with underwater creatures either waiting in ambush or surprised at your lure.

To add to the tonal issues, PLEASE make ceremorphosis feel like a real threat again. My main suggestion:
-Give us a stock companion that, at least for the beginning of Act 1, looks, talks, and acts like a real origin companion, but isn't. Have that companion mention being on a Nautilloid. Then please make that companion undergo ceremorphosis one night, forcing the party to kill the companion's Illithid body before it becomes strong enough to fight back, probably after we try 2 cures or complete the first half of the Act. Or have it happen on the Nautilloid to give us an additional Mind Flayer to fight against Zhalk. The ceremorphosis we watch on the Nautilloid was okay... but the fear of ceremorphosis dissipates too quickly in the narrative, outside of characters worrying about it. Give them something to FEAR. Is it possible to show ceremorphosis in excruciating detail for the person in the pod?
-What happened to the horror of the prologue? The Nautilloid is filled with dark tones, the imagery of the hells, and the body horror of the Mind Flayers, and then... nothing. We have an otherworldly tadpole in our brains! Make us afraid of it! We are pursued by a cult that possibly worships a cabal of eldritch horrors, and yet much of that has been forgotten. When we kill a True Soul, please show more detail in how that parasitic tadpole escapes its now-useless host. Withers' Crypt should also be scarier, design-wise and ambience-wise. There is a lack of a desire to instill fear, uncertainty, and doubt through the aesthetics and ambience of this game, even though it would be REALLY GOOD.

The thing is, I don't think we're supposed to keep being afraid of the tadpole. I think that Larian wants us to calm down, that's why they keep seeding hints that we don't need to worry about it anymore. They want us to feel comfortable enough to explore the area. I don't think they've done an entirely good job of this, and one can argue whether or not that's the right movefor the story, but it's a conscious decision they seem to be making, rather than an unintended consequence.

Wich may also be intended ...
I mean our character should be aware of the fact that s/he is at risk ... but on the other hand s/he should also be aware of that risk isnt exactly imminent ...

I want to believe that writers in Larian are really trying to hit the middle ground here, where our characters cant really know how serious their situation is ...
To give us enough space to chill ... but also to freak out ... dont give any strong suggestion one way, or another, so they dont block out any of those options as completely irational.

But maybe that is just my feeling.

Well if it is intended, then my opinion on the matter is that it'sjust the wrong way to go about things. Maybe the characters shouldn't be aware (maybe) but for the players, we should be. Trying to leave us in the middle ground just results in a nebulous feeling of tension that just lingers for hours on end before inevitably fizzling out, because you can't maintain that kind of tension-especially half hearted tension, for that long without providing some final catharsis. A 90 minute movie can't maintain tension for its entire runtime and only resolve it at the end. Even if we try and rush through the game as quickly as possible because we're super scared of ceremorphosis, I predict it would take longer than 90 minutes to reach the point where we get the tadpole dealt with. And in doing so we would miss a LOT of content as a result. In my first playthrough, I tried to long rest as little as possible and as a result I missed out on SO MUCH companion interaction, which is my favorite part of these games.

And maybe it's just my cautious nature, but if there's a possibility of violent, painful transmutation into a whole different being, then any uncertainty as to the timetable to me can only logically be reacted to with "solve this as soon as possible." Even if we the players lose our sense of tension, it wouldn't make sense for the characters to do so, since they're the ones that actually have to live with the constant danger and uncertainty. So yeah, if this approach is a choice they're making, then I think it's the least satisfying choice.

I disagree ...
We are slowly revealing informations, exactly as we (both characters, and players) should ... the only problem here is that the story is not yet complete, so we dont really know ny final answer ... but that is quite fine by me.

I mean, no story starts by clearly stating:
"Hey, this character will die in middle of the book, but shhhhh!".


Have you seen The Prestige?
I can recomend.


Well, yes ... but those are just choices and consequences.


And that is exactly where you are blinded ...

I have repeated this countless times around here and i believe we two were talking about it allready more than once ... there is several hints that CAN be used by your character as reasoning for feeling perfectly safe ... if you will use them or ignore them is completely up to you.

Sense of "constant danger and uncertainity" is certainly valuable concept ...
But if you would like to use it, you should use it in general, on everything ... you cant go to Goblin camp, bcs it is dangerous ... you cannot approach Githyanki for the same reason ... hells, you cant even go explore Nautiloid, bcs it is potentialy dangerous.
Therefore i believe in order for this story to work on its basic level, we have to presume that our character is willing to accept some risks.

As for the tadpole itself:

Lae'zel tells you you have time ...
Gale tells you you have time ...
Nettie tells you you have time ...
Halsin tells you you have time ...
Omeluum tells you you have time ...
Even Raphael tells you you still have time.
Hag tells you that no matter what you do, you are basicaly allready dead ...
By meeting Ragzlin, Gut, Minthara, Nere, Flint, that dead Drow inside Druid Grove, and that dying Dwarf on the road you SEE you have time, since they all were tadpolized long before you, and yet they didnt turn ...
You have seen on the ship that to iniciate transformation, you need some kind of Illithid device, wich is certainly not around ...
Astarion, Wyll and Karlach seems to keep ensuring you that they feel completely fine and there is nothing to wory about.

On the other hand ...
Shadowheart keeps urge you to resolve this as soon as possible, even tho it means to put YOUR life in danger from Volo, Gut, Hag, and anyone else.
And ... dunno, is there anything else? O_o


Its certainly up to you wich way you choose ...
But i just cant help the feeling that there is conciderably less support towards any sense of imminent danger of transformation.
So ... dont get mad at me, but your character who will "just rus through the game as loose lot of interactions" ... seems a little irational to me. :P


//Edit:
Actualy ... lookig at this list as it is ...
And realizing that some people still think that helping Halsin and rush through the story as fast as possible in order to remove tadpole is not just the best one ... but often even the only logical approach ...

I kinda cant help the feeling that such people are so focused on basic premise that they are simply unable to see story around it IS actualy evolving ... that no matter what hint Larian would throw to them, they would discart it as irellevant, and still would stress about the tadpole with almost fanatic passion. O_o
Bcs those people dont really seem to care what is happening ... they WANT this tadpole to be their main driving force and therefore it WILL BE their driving force no matter what. O_o


Thats just matter of taste ... i like it this way.

No, I haven't had the pleasure. I'll have to check it out, everyone seems to like it.



Maybe, but from a design standpoint, I think it's a flaw. Given that, based on your argument, we're supposed to be able to consider the tadpole a present threat, then the logical reaction to that would be "I should hurry and resolve the tadpole as fast as possible." That's a type of roleplaying that Larian should be able to predict as happening, and if they didn't do anything to even try and support that perfectly logical roleplay route, then that's a failing on Larian's design that they can


We have discussed this many a time. I do get your perspective even if I disagree with it.


I think you misunderstand my meaning. I'm not suggesting that a character won't ever accept danger or risk. I'm just saying that the risk presented by the tadpole is of a kind and an intensity that it would drive a character to ignore risks that don't present a potential solution. So yes, a character might go to the goblin camp and rescue Halsin because it's a way to solve the more pressing issue of the tadpole.


Firstly, you saying this goes against what you just said about thinking Larian is trying to not give us strong suggestions one way or the other, and that they're giving us enough space to freak out. You're outright contradicting yourself here.

But ignoring that, it's hard to absorb all the disparate bits of information and hints on a first playthrough. The game makes a big deal early on about the threat of the tadpole and so that leaves the strongest impression, so a lot of little hints will take longer to make an impression,



I think part of the reason people don't see the story evolving is precisely because of the presentation of the story. The tadpole is a very clear and present danger. Like I said above, there's a big deal made about it upfront, and it seems to be the main problem and it's the driving force motivating the party to do things. And the hints Larian are giving are just that, hints. It's harder for implication and suggestion to push past the sense of immediacy and danger that was presented upfront. That kind of thing is a lot easier to see on a second playthrough, when you know more of the big picture, know what isn't a genuine threat and know that you can afford to relax. But as it stands, the game starts off by yelling at you to be scared and to hurry. it shouldn't be surprising that whispering at us to relax isn't going to work right away.

And I will also point out my other issue about this, that this approach isn't narratively satisfying in the first place. Narratives work on a cycle of rising tension, big release, then falling action before the tension start to rise again. Of course there can be variations, but they have to be done deliberately and thoughtfully. This approach to the tadpole plot is all rising tension with no big release, it just slowly fizzles out. And that's not satisfying. Even if it MAYBE does the first time, which I don't think it does, then on replays it falls entirely flat because you know there's no big moment being hinted towards. Or if there is, then it's coming far too late.

Hope you like it, i really enjoyed that one. ^_^



Im sorry ... i believe there is something missing?
They can what? O_o

Personaly i believe this route is perfectly fine and possible ...
I even dare to presume that in 1.0 i will play this way at least once ... specificly it will be with my Custom Githyanki group + Lae'zel ... for those characters it makes perfect sense that they will try to get rid if the tadpole as fast and as hard as possible no matter what.

Yes, i will loose many side quests ... but since that is exactly unseparateable part of such attitude, it would be exactly part of what i would expect from that particular playthrough.


Thats all i can ask.


Nah that was just joke.
That was why there was those laughting smilies. Nevermind.


Agreed ...
BUT! Even tho this was his original motivation, once he is there ... he gather new informations, gets new perspectives, and might (depending on that character obviously) change their opinion or attitude.

That is basicaly exactly the reason why i believe that Larian keeps us in the middle ground ... we have all the imputs we need ... and its purely up to us to figure out wich one will get wich value, wich lead we decide to follow, and how will we (resp. our characters) process this all.


Yeah ... maybe a little i did ...

Or did i? :P

Bcs its still matter of ballance, 1+1+1+1+1 = 5 ... but still are < 6.
So even 5 weak arguments can seems equaly persuating as one strong ... or much more persuating ... or not as much persuating at all ... it all depens on what value you gives to them.

As i most likely said in at least one of those our previous talking about this topic:
- Wood Elf Druid, who hates anything that is unnatural will have much stronger urge to free Halsin and ask for his help ...
- Than Male Lolthsworn Drow, who clearly sees that this new society, in wich other tadpoled people lives without any harm of physical discomfort, will provide him much better life ...
- And they both will have entirely different reasoning for any action, compared to fanatical Githyanki, who only want to follow protocol as s/he should!

The beauty in the fact that we dont have clear answer is that theese all attitudes are possible.
IF we would have clearly stated (and the game would really work that way) that we have exactly 7 Long Rests to remove the parasite, or we die ... irevertably ... than any other approach than remove asap would be impossible.


Agreed ...
That is exactly it. The story is driven by strong impression of urgency ... wich, as the time goes by, become less and less relevant ... then you add few tidbits here and there ... and voila!
Alternative route has ben born.

And that is just it, an alternative ... it may not seem too apealing for one character ... it might seem like litteral paradise for another.
Thats what i love about it. :3

---

I cant really say much about the rest, that is just your opinion.
I respect it ... believe me or not, but dont identify with it either.

What would enhance immersion further:

- Smaller, more realistic sizes more many weapons (hand axe, mace, rapier, longsword are the worst offenders, in case of the longsword resizing the handle would probably suffice) and some instruments (flute and lute in particular, not sure about the lyre)

- Not having flashy animations and/or brightly coloured Vfx for every mundane action, e.g. Bard's perfom doesn't need those floating notes, jumping animations, the candy coloured Vfx when a bard plays "Song of Rest".

- More functional and realistic looking armors, preferably with the ability to dye them.

A couple from my current play through would be:

Remove glowing eyes when casting spells, it does looks nice when doing talk with dead or whatever the spell is called. But, when casting basic cantrips and level one spells, it just looks over the top.

fix the colors for hair highlights, example: blonde looks teel/green

Have hover over outlining a option to turn off, we already have icons for what can be opened, don't need it outlined in solid white to figure it out also.

I appreciate that they addressed the issue promptly.."Hey we are not changing".

I personally don't like feeling rushed in my game-play, but I understand that others are confused.


To respond to the "middle-ground theory".

Its certainly where we are...Do we use the powers and get stronger?...Do we resist?

When in doubt...I don't use the powers myself.

Tbh, I was running out of new ideas and just wanted to keep the discussion going because I feel that immersion is just generally lacking in this game and want to mine the community's ideas.

On the other hand, it's a tadpole. In our heads. The entire time. Just... sitting there, menacingly.