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Jhe'stil Kith'rak
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Jhe'stil Kith'rak
Joined: Oct 2021
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gradual drag away from what looked like a dark fantasy I dunno ... There are scenes about killing childerns ... There are scenes including eating sentient beings ... There are scenes where your character have to participate in torture ... There are scenes including painful forced transformation into different creature ... What more "dark fantasy" do you want?  Yes, our characters can have colorfull and pastel pink hair (and beard) ... and yes, animals are able to create whole sentences ... and yes, not whole existence in this world is pure grym, gore and desperation ... How can this outweight everything that stay in the game is beyond me. O_o Please don't straw man my argument. I made no mention of whole story beats, and my critique was clearly focused around visuals, aesthetics, and tone. DOS2 (significantly darker than DOS1) had people having their souls removed (sometimes by your own character) into empty husks, along with the crucifixion of those still-living husks, references to the varied torture/punishment methods of Braccus Rex, the imprisonment of children, the ability to slaughter an entire city, the ability to slaughter entire peoples, an early scene where you watch the equivalent of a magical lobotomy, and way more. It also had the Magicockerel, goofy merchants, and other joke characters, an at-times cartoonish style (that was still a dramatic improvement over DOS1), and a lack of consistent tone. *Morally dark scenes are not the same thing as maintaining a dark fantasy aesthetic.* You can make a film about torturing people and use a bright, old school Disney-like aesthetics and people would not be talking about its dark aesthetic. In fact, there have been many works that parody children's animation with gore and other "dark" events, like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Tree_Friends, but we do not refer to these as "dark" animation. By "gradual drag," I am already conceding that the game initially had features of dark fantasy, which include (but are not limited to) what you mentioned in your post, and that Larian is moving away from such an approach. I made no statement as to there being some "outweighing" or substitution of dark moments for dark aesthetic. In fact, I am satisfied with the "dark" moments, but I am talking about an aesthetic ideal. If I had to point to what I mean, compare Dragon Age Origins to the rest of the series, or Morrowind/Skyrim to Oblivion https://i.redd.it/2ev31s0rqrd41.png , or DOS2 when just compared to DOS1, or the FROMSOFT games compared to the whole industry. Visually, we are losing dark aesthetics and contrast each patch. Except for the Nautilloid, the sense of fear and desperation is vanished from the game, only held up in that sequence by the color palette of the Hells and the body horror of the Illithids. Hmm... So the BSN was alight with "there's no darkness in Inquisition". Of course, they chose to ignore walking through the field of crispy corpses, I guess because it happened off camera? As someone with thousands of hours in the Dragon Age series, what about the initial part of the Stone Prisoner DLC? What about the Peak, where you retake the warden stronghold? What about Alistair's doll collection, or licking lamp posts? You see, I kinda see where you're trying to go, but I'm looking at this through a different lens, this is an RPG, not a survival horror game. In that genre, all tension, all the time is expected. In this genre, I expect to have moments of levity, or downright absurdity thrown in. Sometimes at really inappropriate times. Not against any of what you are talking about. But the APPEARANCE of the game could use a bit more darkness even when giving you those moments of levity. I think the fix is in lighting, shadows, contrast, art, and palette. There's way too much color in our companions now, especially their skin. A lot of places that were awash with shadows and flames in darkness now look washed through. I feel like everyone here is ignoring that my complaints are specifically aimed toward the visuals of the game, not the narrative approaches. Crypts should feel ancient and scary. Nautilloids should be strange and harrowing. Ancient Temples should be dark and musty. Darkness should be used to highlight the unknown, the strange, and the terrible. Also, after the Nautilloid, it seems that Larian largely abandons the "otherworldly horrors" angle, which is just disappointing. We get "spooky" with Ethel, the Hook Horrors, and the Necromancer's Basement, but not otherworldly, like in the teaser.
Remember the human (This is a forum for a video game):
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
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Hmm... So the BSN was alight with "there's no darkness in Inquisition". Of course, they chose to ignore walking through the field of crispy corpses, I guess because it happened off camera? As someone with thousands of hours in the Dragon Age series, what about the initial part of the Stone Prisoner DLC? What about the Peak, where you retake the warden stronghold? What about Alistair's doll collection, or licking lamp posts? You see, I kinda see where you're trying to go, but I'm looking at this through a different lens, this is an RPG, not a survival horror game. In that genre, all tension, all the time is expected. In this genre, I expect to have moments of levity, or downright absurdity thrown in. Sometimes at really inappropriate times. Not against any of what you are talking about. But the APPEARANCE of the game could use a bit more darkness even when giving you those moments of levity. I think the fix is in lighting, shadows, contrast, art, and palette. There's way too much color in our companions now, especially their skin. A lot of places that were awash with shadows and flames in darkness now look washed through. I feel like everyone here is ignoring that my complaints are specifically aimed toward the visuals of the game, not the narrative approaches. Crypts should feel ancient and scary. Nautilloids should be strange and harrowing. Ancient Temples should be dark and musty. Darkness should be used to highlight the unknown, the strange, and the terrible. Also, after the Nautilloid, it seems that Larian largely abandons the "otherworldly horrors" angle, which is just disappointing. We get "spooky" with Ethel, the Hook Horrors, and the Necromancer's Basement, but not otherworldly, like in the teaser. Because we're in regular places after our escape? I'd agree, if we were constantly in the Underdark, or in the Hells, but we're not. We're on the mainland, and that's where the regular people live, and that's why it's all "regular peopley". Yes, spellchecker, peopley is a word, I just made it up... Messing around with the patch today, I didn't notice anything "out of the ordinary" that I didn't do to myself playing around with the highlights in the hair options...
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Jhe'stil Kith'rak
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Jhe'stil Kith'rak
Joined: Oct 2021
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Hmm... So the BSN was alight with "there's no darkness in Inquisition". Of course, they chose to ignore walking through the field of crispy corpses, I guess because it happened off camera? As someone with thousands of hours in the Dragon Age series, what about the initial part of the Stone Prisoner DLC? What about the Peak, where you retake the warden stronghold? What about Alistair's doll collection, or licking lamp posts? You see, I kinda see where you're trying to go, but I'm looking at this through a different lens, this is an RPG, not a survival horror game. In that genre, all tension, all the time is expected. In this genre, I expect to have moments of levity, or downright absurdity thrown in. Sometimes at really inappropriate times. Not against any of what you are talking about. But the APPEARANCE of the game could use a bit more darkness even when giving you those moments of levity. I think the fix is in lighting, shadows, contrast, art, and palette. There's way too much color in our companions now, especially their skin. A lot of places that were awash with shadows and flames in darkness now look washed through. I feel like everyone here is ignoring that my complaints are specifically aimed toward the visuals of the game, not the narrative approaches. Crypts should feel ancient and scary. Nautilloids should be strange and harrowing. Ancient Temples should be dark and musty. Darkness should be used to highlight the unknown, the strange, and the terrible. Also, after the Nautilloid, it seems that Larian largely abandons the "otherworldly horrors" angle, which is just disappointing. We get "spooky" with Ethel, the Hook Horrors, and the Necromancer's Basement, but not otherworldly, like in the teaser. Because we're in regular places after our escape? I'd agree, if we were constantly in the Underdark, or in the Hells, but we're not. We're on the mainland, and that's where the regular people live, and that's why it's all "regular peopley". Yes, spellchecker, peopley is a word, I just made it up... Messing around with the patch today, I didn't notice anything "out of the ordinary" that I didn't do to myself playing around with the highlights in the hair options... The Underdark should be more Underdarky though, the Crypt more Crypty, the Abandoned Temple of Selune more Abandoned Templey. Visually, I feel it is not dark enough. In the case of the Underdark, I like that the main source of lighting is phosphorescent fungi, but the darkness outside of those fungi should be more oppressive. Delving into places cut off from the sun should force a dependence on the primary light sources in the area and their near vicinity, not allow those light sources to act as a mini-sun, metaphorically speaking.
Remember the human (This is a forum for a video game):
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Oct 2020
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my critique was clearly focused around visuals, aesthetics, and tone. I gues this is matter of taste ... Personaly i kinda dislike that many directors working for Warner Brothers, making adaptations of DC comics ... seems to think that they are creating "dark atmosphere" by just tuning the lights to minimum. To me what is happening is much more important that how bright colours are used to picture it.  You used happy tree friends as an example ... I would use last season of "The Boys" as mine.  There were also some cute animated animals ... one could even say it was pretty close to Disney style ... and yet, it was pretty grym when they decide to start darker tone (this image could teoreticaly be a little drastic for some people, so open at your own risk) ... On the other hand, Happy tree friends ... even tho they pictured some serious injuries ... were never really serious, it was all pictured as a joke, no injury or any other serious topic that was pictured there, had any lasting effects, and in some specific cases those animals were hurting themselves just for the punch line. That isnt really "dark" theme at all.
Last edited by RagnarokCzD; 10/07/22 07:57 AM.
I still dont understand why cant we change Race for our hirelings.  Lets us play Githyanki as racist as they trully are!
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Aug 2014
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And there is the level of maturity you get from the kiddies. Expecting an official D&D game to have D&D in it makes you not a grownup, guys. You don't deserve a good game! Nah, its exactly this attiude that is inmature. Posting snarky comments without any actual content just to attempt to devalue other people's opinions is about as juvenile as it gets.
Grown-ups can talk about a game even if they have different preferences without targeting each other or attempting to tear each other's posts to shreds on a microscopic level. Indeed? Funny ... What exactly was your "deep and completely unrelated to attempt to devalue others" content here, please? :P I know you were trying tho ... But i have very good detector for hypocrisy. That content was an attempt to make you understand that sometimes it's better to not post. Disagreeing with reasoning is fine. Posting only to be destructive or to provoke endless arguments is not. This is why I usually just automatically skip all your posts, but that one was short enough to slip through. I'll let you have the last word now so this won't continue for 5 pages and dilute the actual topic in the thread.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Oct 2020
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an attempt to make you understand that sometimes it's better to not post. My hypocrite senses are tingling!
Last edited by RagnarokCzD; 10/07/22 10:14 AM.
I still dont understand why cant we change Race for our hirelings. Lets us play Githyanki as racist as they trully are!
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Sep 2017
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1varangian is right here, Ragnarok. You have been a bit overly "target the poster, not their message" lately. Please stop that. I'm aware of the intricacies in discussion dynamics and some people's poor way of arguing. After multiple warnings I transition from trying to talk to them, warn them, and then the bans come flying, and I'm starting to hand those out these days, starting at one month.
Basically, I hope you learn from their mistakes and don't go down the same path. Not every discussion requires a devil's advocate if you don't have a point to make. And opinions that you don't agree with don't always need to be challenged or shut down. Behavior that disrupts a conversation isn't something I particularly like, and that goes either direction. I recently had a strong word with someone on Discord for insisting on trying to kill someone else's excitement for being hyped up about more customization options in character creation. Literally, no reason for them to do that, this individual just really likes creating characters - good for them and happy they got more things to play with.
Last edited by The Composer; 10/07/22 01:35 PM.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
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Because we're in regular places after our escape? I'd agree, if we were constantly in the Underdark, or in the Hells, but we're not. We're on the mainland, and that's where the regular people live, and that's why it's all "regular peopley". Yes, spellchecker, peopley is a word, I just made it up... Messing around with the patch today, I didn't notice anything "out of the ordinary" that I didn't do to myself playing around with the highlights in the hair options... The Underdark should be more Underdarky though, the Crypt more Crypty, the Abandoned Temple of Selune more Abandoned Templey. Visually, I feel it is not dark enough. In the case of the Underdark, I like that the main source of lighting is phosphorescent fungi, but the darkness outside of those fungi should be more oppressive. Delving into places cut off from the sun should force a dependence on the primary light sources in the area and their near vicinity, not allow those light sources to act as a mini-sun, metaphorically speaking. That can, and has, been taken too far though. Hell, even in Fallout 4, there are places that are visually dark for the sake of being visually dark. I'm not a fan of walking into a wall that I can't see, maybe because being blind in one eye, I do it all the time. I'm surprised I don't have a massive calcium deposit on my right shoulder from clipping door jams. I can see the Underdark requiring either low light vision or torches, or even both sometimes, but that's the trick there, if one has low light vision, that visual darkness will be somewhat mitigated anyway. So, for me, who prefers to play as Elves, it wouldn't make a lot of difference. It could even be, given that, that that's why I'm not noticing what you're talking about. But with the temple, there is a hole that you can literally jump down into to gain access, it wouldn't make a lot of sense for the light not to filter in, which it does. There are also people there, in the entrance way, and so having lights provided makes perfect sense, there's people there.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Oct 2020
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You have been a bit overly "target the poster, not their message" lately. And once again there is only my name, even tho we both did exactly the same ... You honestly think i was alone? O_o Cant say i agree with you, not like it matters anyhow ...
Last edited by RagnarokCzD; 10/07/22 02:00 PM.
I still dont understand why cant we change Race for our hirelings. Lets us play Githyanki as racist as they trully are!
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Sep 2017
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You and who?
Also, getting dangerously close to the end of the talking section and into the warning section.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Oct 2020
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1varangian ofc ...
Yes, i was barking at him in reactions to his barks ... and neither of us were talking about the topic ...
Its true, there is no reason to deny it ... sometimes i loose it ... with some individuals its easier than others, many people knows this about me, myself included ofc.
One could argue that i started ... here ... that would also be true, from certain point of view ... even tho i believe that in order to find wich one "really" started we would have to go several months into past. :-/
And i calmly admit that i dont remember anymore.
All im saying is that while my behaviour towards him was inapropriate ... his towards me was at best the same.
--
As for the moving to another part ...
I gues you are right, even tho my reasoning would likely be different from yours. :-/
But i dare to presume that since you asked i should have answered ... so i hope this message is fine.
Last edited by RagnarokCzD; 10/07/22 02:08 PM.
I still dont understand why cant we change Race for our hirelings. Lets us play Githyanki as racist as they trully are!
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Sep 2017
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From what I see, one was trying to de-escalate and not let something drag on for 5 pages and dilute the thread, and the other does the opposite. And I generally don't moderate on a singular post basis but a recurring trend.
To put it very clearly: I am asking you to reconsider when, what and how you decide to post. There are reasons to that. I'm not to be convinced, when multiple reports come in on the same person, I hop into the thread and scroll a page back for context to read through if I think the reports make good points. If they do, I butt in. I don't play "He said she said" games, I'm talking to you. If Varangian decides to be a problem continuously, he can expect me at his doorstep some day too. We're talking about you now. Either you choose to self-reflect and look inwards, and figure out why I'm talking to you - Or you don't and eventually end up being unable to post for a while.
Clear?
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Oct 2020
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one was trying to de-escalate O_o Well if you are basicaly telling: "I have spoken!" Then yes. :-/
I still dont understand why cant we change Race for our hirelings. Lets us play Githyanki as racist as they trully are!
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Jhe'stil Kith'rak
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Jhe'stil Kith'rak
Joined: Oct 2021
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Honestly, I'd just take a lighting and shadows fix with a slight darkening of the palette of the characters and the environment, where applicable. It makes sense to have bright custom characters, sure, but I don't think this new lighting and its resultant impression-of-style is doing places like the Underdark, Crypt, Places with Goblin Burning Trees, or the Nautilloid any favors.
Remember the human (This is a forum for a video game):
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2020
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I think the situation is quite simple here: there is dissonance.
BG3 is a game with dark themes (turning into a monster, killing children, eating humanoids etc) but with a light aesthetic (super-saturated colours, exaggerated moves like the shove or jump action, and Disney-level talking squirrels).
Larian has perfectly centred the themes of a BG game but it is unable (or unwilling) to provide the appropriate (or fitting, cohesive or any other adjective) visual experience to complement them.
And, beware, I love the game. Still, I can't deny its problems.
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member
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OP
member
Joined: Apr 2021
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I think the situation is quite simple here: there is dissonance.
BG3 is a game with dark themes (turning into a monster, killing children, eating humanoids etc) but with a light aesthetic (super-saturated colours, exaggerated moves like the shove or jump action, and Disney-level talking squirrels).
Larian has perfectly centred the themes of a BG game but it is unable (or unwilling) to provide the appropriate (or fitting, cohesive or any other adjective) visual experience to complement them.
And, beware, I love the game. Still, I can't deny its problems. Yes, thanks. Visual representation definitely plays the leading role here, because, hey, BG1 has a talking hen and that quest is adorable! Push for cute things in BG3 is a thing I would really like to be contained and kept in check, my hype was for a guy vomiting his teeth out.
Romances in RPGs brought us to this
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Jul 2014
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Hello, VenusP, if memory serves right it's been a while.
For what is worth, I can see where you are coming from.
The "tonal inconsistency" even in every little visual solution is something that I pointed myself several times in the past.
Personally I can't say I'm particularly disturbed by "talking squirrels" (or animals in general) but Jesus, if it doesn't bother me that people are shoved around in comedically large parabolical trajectories, that bows and crossbows shot in slow, floppy, overly-accentuated arcs, that pushing someone down a cliff means watching them almost floating their way down as ACME gag from a Road Runner cartoon, etc, etc.
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member
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OP
member
Joined: Apr 2021
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Hey Tuco! It’s been a while indeed. It is this last patch which reminded me about my growing disappointment in the direction their stylistic decisions keep dragging the game. That and also the lack of any progress in regards of addressing the old issues such as the actions economy.
I fully agree with your concerns and I’ve voiced my support for them on several occasions. Projectiles trajectories is a ridiculously easy to fix issue, but somehow it hasn’t been addressed yet for some unknown reason. Can’t imagine what’s holding their hand. Can it be the inconsistency in the art direction as well?
Romances in RPGs brought us to this
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2020
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If anything, it looks like Larian is trying to outcompete Skyrim in "The goofiest meme generator" category.
Jokes aside, I won't be surprised if it's their actual business strategy. After all, Skyrim has sold 30 million copies within 5 years after its release. I don't know if Sven aims that high - after all, a huge free-roam world delivers much more game experience than a relatively small, mostly railroaded visual novel. Still, there's money to be made, and he knows it.
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