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#820951 14/07/22 01:47 PM
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OK. So I tried to play the game as if I'm a new player and know nothing about D&D 5e. Forget all the feedback I've posted, everything other people have said, etc. I'm just playing Patch 8 as if it is D&D 5.5e, the official 5.5 ruleset. Shove is Bonus and can push people really far, only 2 Short Rests per day and no Hit Dice, etc.

Created Diadell and Drogyn. Diadell is a Female Wood Elf Entertainer Bard (she's normally an Master of Disguise Arcane Trickster Rogue, but this version of her still fits her character too), and Drogyn is a Male Human Outlander Barbarian (he's normally a Half-Orc, but the rest goes with his character).

Character Creation:
Yeah. The hair colors don't match the labels. 5 or 6 orange hair colors and none of them look orange in Character Creation. Went with Orange 5 or 6 (can't remember right now) for Diadell, and gave her Green highlights. I figured, she's a master of disguise anyway. I'll just say she dyed her hair. I get to the game itself, and suddenly, her hair looks orange. She gets to the beach, and I'm roaming around in broad daylight, and yeah. Her hair looks like the color it's supposed to be with green highlights. So... Not sure what that's all about. Definitely needs fixing. Either way, I love that we can now use all the hairs from both male and female sets. That's good. Now do that for all faces and provide us more variety of faces. I do have to say, it was impossible to find a face that even remotely looks like Drogyn's. We definitely need more faces and voices. Drogyn's should be deeper and more guttural. We also NEED body types. Drogyn is supposed to be buff, like Halsin. He should actually have the same build as Halsin.

Secondly, what's up with the Ability Score cap? Drogyn should have at least Strength 18 to start, but the game wouldn't let me go above 17. Am I just remembering incorrectly? You can have a human character with Strength 18 at level 1, can't you?

Nautiloid:
As mentioned on another post, the colors are too saturated. My son walked into the room, has only seen me play it a few times and never played it himself. He says, "Man, your graphics card sucks. You have to play that on such low quality." It old him it was on Medium quality. Then I turned it to Ultra, and he said, "Geez. It didn't fix it much at all. Man. It hurts my eyes." I proceeded to show him pictures of Patch 7 versus Patch 8, and he, like many others, thought it was way better in Patch 7.

Us can no longer be heard from the first floor. I thought it was good to have this creepy voice calling to you for help from the upper level. It draws players up to the upper level to check it out. I almost forgot to even go up there to trigger the scene. I remember my first playthrough. The whole reason I went up there was because of the voice. I will say, though, I failed the Crippling Us roll to make it more subservient, and I like that Us attacks you. I don't remember if that's new or not, since I can't remember if I ever did that and failed, but I thought it made sense and was good.

I'm still noticing weird cinematic sequences. Things seem choppy, etc. compared to some previous patches where the movie scenes flowed more smoothly. Example: when you come up the stairs out onto the deck, the whole dragon sequence was a bit off with Lae'zel standing next to my companions with flames everywhere. It just seemed choppy or something. I remember when first playing the game, I thought all the cutscenes in the prologue flowed much more smoothly. Not sure why they don't anymore, but I'd like them to flow again.

Lesser imps! Yay! Thank you for renaming them so they aren't known as Imps. You even called some Wounded Imps. I know it's stupid, but it means a lot. Now, can you rename intellect devourers as Ustilagors so we know they're baby intellect devourers and not normal ones? Or, can you name them something like Mutated Intellect Devourers, or just something to indicate that they aren't your typical D&D versions?

Shadowheart's pod, I thought, was a good addition. I like that you are now tempting players with real temptations to use their illithid powers. One thing, though. You didn't say we'd be using powers. That, I thought, wasn't good. It just read, "Wisdom". I thought I was merely making a Wisdom check, not using some strange new power I didn't know I had. I think it shouldn't be necessarily labeled Illithid Power, or anything like that. I think it should be something more like, "Mysterious Power". And don't make us make a check for it if the Difficulty is 0. That's weird and a waste of time. Really cuts into the flow of the scene. Just the option to use "Unknown Power" or "Mysterious Power" or even "Telepathic Power" and if you do, the cutscene is triggered. I think more temptations like this would be good. The tadpole WANTS you to use it. So, we need more reasons why WE would want to use it. Having a companion not join the party at that moment unless we use the tadpole is good. First time players will be, I would think, truly tempted to use this new "Mysterious Power" in order to free someone they might gain as a companion.

Another example of the choppy cutscenes is the woman in the pod who gets transformed. It used to flow so much better. Now, it cuts and splices all over the place. Very weird and not as effective as it used to be. I remember playing it for the first time and being really freaked out. Now... no. It's like, "What just happened? Oh. She turned into a mind flayer. Weird."

The helm fight is now too easy. It makes me tempted to fight Zhalk just because it's so easy. I understand it's the prologue, and you don't want it being too hard, but it's literally a walk in the park - and I was trying to play it as if I didn't know anything about the game. Just flat out ran through it and fought. I came up with the idea of an actual Imp Boss named Trigo. 1 Actual 5e Imp near the helm who can turn invisible and sting with his severed tail club would make for a much more interesting final fight to the prologue. Trigo has only 1 eye, but he doesn't wear an eyepatch over the other. He just leaves it glaring at people. His tail was severed, but he now uses it as a club (so it does the same thing, but players can then pick it up and use it as a powerful club weapon). He can fly and transform into a raven, etc. You know. Typical imp stuff. Anyway, the idea would be Trigo and 2 lesser imps near the helm, and 2 lesser imps and the hellsboar at the entranceway. Oh, and maybe give the hellsboar a charge attack or something to make it more powerful. It's also baby easy. I mean, the players don't have to beat all the enemies. They just need to get to the helm. So, at this point in the game, having some tougher enemies would be good to add to the overall excitement of the final prologue fight. Plus, you might gain a tough weapon (Trigo's tail club with poison damage) which would be much easier to acquire than Zhalk's sword. Only super awesome players should be able to beat Zhalk and take his sword, and his sword should actually be much more powerful. It should be a very rare item for players to acquire. Right now, it's actually way too easy to kill him too. Others may not agree, but that's my opinion.

And finally, the cutscene at the end as you transition to the beach is, again, too choppy.

Bard:
I gotta say, I don't normally care for bards, but you've got me loving the bard class. It's been a lot of fun. I like that Diadell mocks her enemies with unique Vicious Mockery things that she says and kinda jams on her lute when she casts spells. Again, not thinking from a D&D 5e perspective, it's been a fun class to play. Yes, Reactions aren't implemented well, and that is a major thing in D&D 5e, and yes there are other things that aren't implemented "correctly" based on 5e rules, but I am enjoying the class. I was shocked that certain things just remain up until you dispel them. For example, Speak with Animals. I cast it once and I can leave it up all day. Same with Disguise Self. I can even have both up all day. I never have to dispel them. But, ya know, I'm okay with that. Without an in-game clock, it makes sense, and it is annoying when you cast a spell in a video game and it only stays up for a hot minute. One conversation with an animal is all you get because you couldn't run to the next animal fast enough. Yeah. I'd rather have the "Condition" system you've got going here.

Resting:
As much as I've posted about long versus short resting, playing it again as if I'm a first time player, I've short rested once on my way to the crypt. I've ended my playthrough presently in the dank crypt lower level, and I've only used the one. I haven't needed to use another or a long rest, and I've not felt like it was a thing. The tooltips even make it clear that it costs something, which does discourage long resting, and characters are urging you to continue because of the tadpoles. Since I'm looking at it from the first-time playthrough lens, I'm also not wanting to rest because I feel like I'm in hostile territory. I don't feel like I'm in a good place to long rest yet. So, that works. I still think there needs to be a higher food cost for long resting, and I would still like to see SRs unlimited (remove the 2/day) while implementing Hit Dice. I also think that food item management really bogs down the game, but if this is the way you are going to make it, so be it. It doesn't break the game.

Still, I'm in the crypt, I personally don't feel a long rest is needed, but my character suddenly says, "It's been a long day. Maybe we should call it a day." THAT needs to go. Let ME decide when it's time to rest. Don't have the characters, especially my MC, telling me I should get some rest. I still have a short rest left to use, and I'm in a hostile, dank crypt after having just killed mercenaries. Still, Gale has only used 1 spell slot, hasn't used Arcane Recovery, Shadowheart has used 1 spell slot, my bard still has 2 and I haven't raged with my barbarian even once. I still have Lae'zel at camp and Astarion for backup if I need to switch people out, and I'm nearing the end of the dungeon. Yeah. Not ready to rest.

I did think of an alternative to the dialogues being triggered only during long rest. Trigger them also during the day at mini-camps. So, I'm in the dank crypt. Suddenly, Gale gets an exclamation point over his head (or whatever indicator). I talk to him, and he says, "Let's head to camp and chat." So, you Fast Travel to Camp as opposed to Long Rest. THEN the game triggers his Mirror Image dialogue. Same lighting as it would be for a long rest because you're in the dank crypt. Literally nothing would change except the trigger. Same could be done with the Go to Hell dialogue.

Gale:
I'm not crazy about the new look. It's okay, but it seemed, again, kinda off. The animations weren't as fluid and I felt that his new look didn't match his voice as well. I don't know. I kinda liked the previous Gale better. I'm trying to see if it's just a "getting use to it" thing or not.

Astarion's Meet And Greet Scene:
Still not crazy about it. For one, my character grabs the blade of his dagger. That's a good way to lose your fingers. You never grab a blade. You grab the handle. But aside from that, it just seems - I don't know how else to put it - stupid. Here's this scared vampire spawn. He runs into you and Shadowheart. He pretends there's an intellect devourer in the bushes. He tricks you (assuming you take that route) into looking and then pounces on you with a knife from behind. And why? He obviously knows nothing about intellect devourers, so it's not like he's thinking you're one of them. He thinks you are working with the mind flayers? If so, why would you help him kill "one of those brain things"? Makes no sense. If you're working WITH the mind flayers, why would you kill "one of those brain things" since the "brain things" are working with the mind flayers? It just seems forced and stupid.

I'd much rather have him be more manipulative and cunning. Have it play out as it does now at first. You step towards the bush and see the boar run off. Then, instead of having him attack you, he sighs in relief. "Ah. Thank goodness. I was wrong. It wasn't one of those things. Just a dumb boar. Well. Thank you. At least I know you're a friendly person and not some selfish bastard like others I've run into out here. You are quite brave, aren't you? Say. Didn't I see you on the ship. I..." Tadpole strikes both of you. I'm not saying this exact thing, but the idea is that if you are friendly to him, he is friendly to you because he WANTS to make you think he's a really great guy. Refuse to go into the bush, and he says, "Well, I was hoping for someone friendlier." But instead of pulling a knife, he just shrugs. Why? Because he's outnumbered, and he's scared because he's in broad daylight. Why would he pull a knife on you? Makes no sense. The triggering of the tadpole during the dialogue is enough to prompt the portions of the conversation that lead to him joining you. You don't need him pulling a knife on you.

Mage Hand:
Please just make it push buttons, pull levers, and pick things up. Don't make it an attack minion that can't push buttons, pull levers, and pick things up. For Arcane Tricksters, I REALLY want a Mage Hand that can pick locks, pick pockets and have it be invisible to NPCs so that it functions like a Jedi Move Object ability. It's really weird as a combat minion.

Grease Trap:
Why do my people fall as soon as grease spills onto a floor? No roll. Nothing. They just slip and fall. I can understand that if I try to have them move, they would need to make an Athletics or Acrobatics roll, but not while standing still. I get that the grease trap is like a puzzle. You need to figure out that you need to cover the vents. But that's boring and tedious, and first-time players may not figure this out. However, they may have someone near the button ready to press it when you trigger the trap, or at the very least figure out that once the trap is sprung that you need to press the button and fast. It's INCREDIBLY annoying and frustrating to force players to have to cover every single dang vent every time when there is a button there that could be pressed. It's even MORE annoying that you may have someone standing by the button, but they slip and fall and can't get up in time to press it before the fire blows the entire party to the Hells. It's even MORE MORE annoying that I had Gale standing outside the room, he cast Mage Hand right by the button, but the hand couldn't even press the button to stop the madness from happening. I think the trap is a good one to have, but these few tweaks would make it so that players have a few other ways to beat it besides meticulously moving pots onto vents.

Overall: I gotta say that overall I'm enjoying Patch 8. In spite of all the negative feedback, I do think it's improving in a lot of ways. I always think it could be better, but I'm sure you (Larian) do also. The worst critic is always the artist, so I'm sure you're always noticing things that drive you nuts about the game. You want this or that better, and you just can't make it work. Whatever. Ultimately, know that the game is great. It's light years more fun than a lot of other games I've played recently. You're doing great, Larian. Keep it up.

But please fix Shove. smile If nothing else. Please fix Shove distances. This is still probably one of my - if not my - biggest pet peeve. I can't stand being shoved more than 5 feet. I feel like I'm constantly terrified of edges, and I can't be far enough away from them. Seriously. No joke. Thus far, in Patch 8, I haven't had that issue, but I haven't gotten to the areas where it's a thing yet. Based on all the patches before it, I'm fearing what's coming.

I'm sure I'll add more later, but this is what I've got so far. Thanks for reading.

Last edited by GM4Him; 14/07/22 02:27 PM.
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Originally Posted by GM4Him
You can have a human character with Strength 18 at level 1, can't you?
No, not with Point Buy. Humans actually can only have 16 maximum in a stat, while most other races can have 17.

Originally Posted by GM4Him
Us can no longer be heard from the first floor. I thought it was good to have this creepy voice calling to you for help from the upper level. It draws players up to the upper level to check it out. I almost forgot to even go up there to trigger the scene. I remember my first playthrough. The whole reason I went up there was because of the voice.
+1

Originally Posted by GM4Him
Lesser imps! Yay! Thank you for renaming them so they aren't known as Imps. You even called some Wounded Imps. I know it's stupid, but it means a lot.
Wow, your biggest pet peeve has been fixed. Nice!

Originally Posted by GM4Him
The helm fight is now too easy. It makes me tempted to fight Zhalk just because it's so easy. I understand it's the prologue, and you don't want it being too hard, but it's literally a walk in the park - and I was trying to play it as if I didn't know anything about the game. Just flat out ran through it and fought.
Agreed. Some fights should be too hard to be reasonably beaten. Going against an important devil and a mindflayer, even if they're fighting each other, should certainly be that. If you attack the mindflayer enough it should Mind Blast everyone for 22 damage and getting stunned (save for half damage and no stun). Zhalk should also be stronger: resistance to non-magic damage? more hp or ac? stronger/more attacks? Calls for reinforcements earlier and obviously, giving the player a 1-turn warning?

Originally Posted by GM4Him
As much as I've posted about long versus short resting, playing it again as if I'm a first time player, I've short rested once on my way to the crypt. I've ended my playthrough presently in the dank crypt lower level, and I've only used the one. I haven't needed to use another or a long rest, and I've not felt like it was a thing. The tooltips even make it clear that it costs something, which does discourage long resting, and characters are urging you to continue because of the tadpoles.
Even if you *feel* like you're encouraged to not long rest, you'll still miss cutscenes so that aspect of the game needs to be fixed. For example,
Originally Posted by GM4Him
I did think of an alternative to the dialogues being triggered only during long rest. Trigger them also during the day at mini-camps..
Yes

Originally Posted by GM4Him
Astarion's Meet And Greet Scene: Still not crazy about it. [...] It just seems forced and stupid.
Agreed

Originally Posted by GM4Him
Mage Hand:
Please just make it push buttons, pull levers, and pick things up. Don't make it an attack minion that can't push buttons, pull levers, and pick things up. For Arcane Tricksters, I REALLY want a Mage Hand that can pick locks, pick pockets and have it be invisible to NPCs so that it functions like a Jedi Move Object ability. It's really weird as a combat minion.
Agreed

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Lol. I wouldn't say my biggest pet peeve is the imps, but yeah. Knowing they are not the standard version helps. I now know I'm not going to necessarily fight imps with sting.

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I was about to make a similiar topic, but since I don't want to spam the board...

Character creation:

Agreed, the hair colours look... kind of weird in character creation, which in many cases makes it nearly impossible to find a colour that fits. Also, highlighting should affect facial hair just like it does for your hair.
I definitely agree with the need to have different body sizes to choose from.

Bard:

I enjoyed my human bard for the most part, Vicious Mockery is just too cool with it's voiced insults.
However, the visuals for the bard's powers, including spellcasting, are horrible. They are ridiculously overdone, look goofy and unimmersive. Sorry, but there's no way to put it nicely.
Another issue I have with the bard are the instruments. Some of them, like the drum and violin, look great while others, like the lute and flute, are oversized.

Meeting Astarion:

If the cutscene is to remain as it is now, we should quite frankly get an option to draw our weapon and attack him. We have that option with Gale during the initial meeting, even though Gale hasn't given us any real reason other than just appearing.
Astarion on the other hand has tried to assault the character and he just gets a free pass?

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Originally Posted by GM4Him
I was shocked that certain things just remain up until you dispel them. For example, Speak with Animals. I cast it once and I can leave it up all day. Same with Disguise Self. I can even have both up all day.
Such a great quality of life update!😊🦡

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I don't know. I kinda liked the bard spellcasting. Bards have always seemed a bit ridiculous to me. I mean, imagine it. Troll lumbers up on the party. What does the bard pull out? A flute. Starts twittling about and prancing as magic swirls about to attack the troll. Thunder wave!

Seems a bit ridiculous by nature. Don't you think?

The lute is a bit big though, I will say that.

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Originally Posted by GM4Him
I don't know. I kinda liked the bard spellcasting. Bards have always seemed a bit ridiculous to me. I mean, imagine it. Troll lumbers up on the party. What does the bard pull out? A flute. Starts twittling about and prancing as magic swirls about to attack the troll. Thunder wave!

Seems a bit ridiculous by nature. Don't you think?

It's mostly the flashy colours that destroy the atmosphere for me(and the brightly glowing eyes). I can live with the over the top animations, while I still think they look somewhat ridiculous I can accept them. But the candy-coloured Vfx? Just no.
They need to be addressed and the sooner the better.

Originally Posted by GM4Him
The lute is a bit big though, I will say that.

Have you tried a flute yet? That one looks like it's made for an ogre wink Seriously, it's that big...

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Originally Posted by GM4Him
I don't know. I kinda liked the bard spellcasting. Bards have always seemed a bit ridiculous to me. I mean, imagine it. Troll lumbers up on the party. What does the bard pull out? A flute. Starts twittling about and prancing as magic swirls about to attack the troll. Thunder wave!

Seems a bit ridiculous by nature. Don't you think?

Is it though...more ridiculous than a wizard making hand signs, chewing some pepper or worse like fire beetle belly and mumbling some jumbo or a cleric praying for a miracle(ie godly intervention) holding a piece of clay?
Personally I'm not a fan of the bard class but I simply view their instruments as spell focuses.

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Originally Posted by PrivateRaccoon
Originally Posted by GM4Him
I don't know. I kinda liked the bard spellcasting. Bards have always seemed a bit ridiculous to me. I mean, imagine it. Troll lumbers up on the party. What does the bard pull out? A flute. Starts twittling about and prancing as magic swirls about to attack the troll. Thunder wave!

Seems a bit ridiculous by nature. Don't you think?

Is it though...more ridiculous than a wizard making hand signs, chewing some pepper or worse like fire beetle belly and mumbling some jumbo or a cleric praying for a miracle(ie godly intervention) holding a piece of clay?
Personally I'm not a fan of the bard class but I simply view their instruments as spell focuses.

Yeah. Kinda. I mean, wizards and such chant powerful words and make crisp hand gestures. Clerics grab spell focuses and utter powerful prayers. The most powerful thing a bard can do is jam on a lite like Eddie Van Halen on his electric guitar. I'm sorry, but a flute isn't very strikingly powerful. Shrill? Yes. Powerful. Meh. Horns. Definitely. Either way, music makes a weird attack spell focus.

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Originally Posted by GM4Him
I'm sure I'll add more later, but this is what I've got so far. Thanks for reading.


+1 All good observations and I generally agree.

I will also mention that when my character steps out onto the path that leads to meeting La'zel the Dragons now sound incredibly meek and mild. There used to be a dramatic roar when they appeared but now just some muted squawks. It's a little detail but I really notice it and have no idea why they would change it? Someone else mentioned a similar muting of the Barbarian Rage and having just tried it out it is very subdued now compared to before. Again why?

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I just double checked to be sure: you can still hear Us from the main floor.

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Originally Posted by Ranxerox
Originally Posted by GM4Him
I'm sure I'll add more later, but this is what I've got so far. Thanks for reading.


+1 All good observations and I generally agree.

I will also mention that when my character steps out onto the path that leads to meeting La'zel the Dragons now sound incredibly meek and mild. There used to be a dramatic roar when they appeared but now just some muted squawks. It's a little detail but I really notice it and have no idea why they would change it? Someone else mentioned a similar muting of the Barbarian Rage and having just tried it out it is very subdued now compared to before. Again why?

Yep. Noticed it too. It's like they broke many audio clips and cutscenes.

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Originally Posted by JandK
I just double checked to be sure: you can still hear Us from the main floor.

Weird. I just did too, and was wearing headphones - earbuds. No Us.

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Note:. Each time I short rested, I Fast Traveled to camp. Transition each time was super fast. Less than 5 seconds.

So, SR could easily transport party to mini-camps, such as in dank crypt, for dialogue purposes. Then, have indicator over character heads. Only in camp can Gale use his Arcane Recovery, so only during SR. Could be easily done.

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Originally Posted by GM4Him
Originally Posted by JandK
I just double checked to be sure: you can still hear Us from the main floor.

Weird. I just did too, and was wearing headphones - earbuds. No Us.

Hmm.

I wonder if we're having different experiences because of Steam versus Stadia.

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Originally Posted by JandK
Originally Posted by GM4Him
Originally Posted by JandK
I just double checked to be sure: you can still hear Us from the main floor.

Weird. I just did too, and was wearing headphones - earbuds. No Us.

Hmm.

I wonder if we're having different experiences because of Steam versus Stadia.

Could be.

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Okay, so reached the grove and after dank crypt used last SR. Still going day 1 and not feeling like I need a rest just yet. Switches out SH for Lae and still going. Gale is out of Spells, so I was going to switch out with Astarion.

Low and behold! ASTARION IS GONE! He was in my party. I asked him to wait at camp and switched to Gale before the crypt, but now... He's been abducted!

I've used 1 maybe 2 potions so far. Also, I have 320 camping supplies. Daggum! That's excessive.

Here's another strange occurrence. Gale was put to sleep during the grove fight. Aradin runs up AND SHOVE HIM OFF THR LEDGE to wake him up. Was that really necessary, Aradin?

Jerk.

I got into the grove. Where's Arka and the other guy? They weren't mourning Kanon. Weird. Did no one tell her that her brother died? Yeah. Things be a bit weird. Things that were, no longer are - things that made sense that now do not.

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Originally Posted by GM4Him
I got into the grove. Where's Arka and the other guy? They weren't mourning Kanon. Weird. Did no one tell her that her brother died? Yeah. Things be a bit weird. Things that were, no longer are - things that made sense that now do not.

They could be on their way to deal with the imprisoned vermin... err, I mean goblin. At least that's where they were in my playthrough. I should note that neither Aradin nor any of his comrades survived the battle and I managed to get Wyll killed as well smile . So, Zevlor was standing near the wagon while Arka(?) was halfway into the hollow when I arrived.

Astarion might have encountered my party and met his usual end... wink

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+1 as usual, GM4Him


Remember the human (This is a forum for a video game):
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Originally Posted by Kendaric
Originally Posted by GM4Him
I got into the grove. Where's Arka and the other guy? They weren't mourning Kanon. Weird. Did no one tell her that her brother died? Yeah. Things be a bit weird. Things that were, no longer are - things that made sense that now do not.

They could be on their way to deal with the imprisoned vermin... err, I mean goblin. At least that's where they were in my playthrough. I should note that neither Aradin nor any of his comrades survived the battle and I managed to get Wyll killed as well smile . So, Zevlor was standing near the wagon while Arka(?) was halfway into the hollow when I arrived.

Astarion might have encountered my party and met his usual end... wink

In Patch 7, Arka and the other tiefling are up by Kanon. There's a whole exchange and then she runs off to kill Sazza. Now... It's like pre-patch 6 or 7. They're just not there,. Why? Why take it out? It worked well, I thought.

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