Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General Githyanki Patrol - Why so Early?

First of all, thank you for a great game so far. The following critique should be taken as an exception to an otherwise great experience.

Not far into the game you are put on the trail of finding the githyanki, because it is a possible way to get rid of the tadpoles in your head, something you would really want to do. However, when you do find them it quickly becomes apparent that the resulting fight might not be possible to win without more experience. But in the early access there is a level cap of 4. Given the githyanki hit points, attacks and damage it would seem they are something corresponding to 7th level characters in actual power (not formal level). A party of four 4th level characters against a party of four 7th level characters is hardly balanced. Now I know some would say the fight is easy, they did it already on 3th level with one hand tied behind their back. To this I only ask: Why would the game allow you to easily win such an unbalanced fight? Personally I have yet to win. Even bringing in the ogres did not do the trick for me. And if you win, I have heard you get a great prize in form of magical weapons which you could argue, is too high a gain for 4th level characters. Clearly this encounter was meant for a 6th or 7th level party?

My point here is not that the fight is too tough (although I DO think it is too tough for the level). My point is the simple question, why would the story lead the party into this encounter at such an early stage? There are probably some story related reason, but in terms of balance of power it seems absurd.

As a side note I should say I managed all the other fights in the game (that I have encountered), some easier than others, but all entertaining. Being slaughtered by githyanki like that however is no fun. I hope some change will be made in the full version.

This fight definitely is for higher levels. In order to beat It, I had to cheese it by goading them up the hill and raining down fire arrows and other exposive on top of them just to kill them. That being said, I think for EA it's just suppose to be a challenge for players to have fun with. Though in the full release, players will theoretically be a higher level before they even deal with that fight given there won't be a level cap of 4 and leveling up is pretty fast.

That fight could also be Larians way to test how we players would handle a harder fight, to get some data for balancing the full game.

In the full game, it has to be a wall that will not allow you to move to the next area too early.

Others have mentioned pretty good reasons as to why they might be made that way.

From a story perspective, it could also be a way to showcase that the Githyanki are formidable opponents and not someone you take lightly... as you do come face to face with a Kith'rak. The fight is quite interesting to me, as it can go completely your way or completely sideways in an instant, but I still consistently manage to overcome it and I like that there are challenging fights in the game which can be beaten with a bit of creativity.

I always have Lae'zel as a Battle Master in my party, who gains 3 special attacks. The strongest I found to be are Disarm, Push and Riposte.

• Disarm Sarth Baretha and the Crossbow Gith, as they do the most damage and are completely useless without weapons
• Prioritize in quickly getting rid of the Greatsword Githyanki, as he will constantly spam Sleep to incapacitate your party
• If you have ranged, make them go up to the bridge via the ladders nearby. So that when any Githyanki teleports up there, you can easily shove them back down
• If you have melee, you shouldn't have any trouble if Lae'zel disarms the two Gith
• If you have pets, place them near the Crossbow Githyanki so he becomes Threatened which will make him miss more

There are so many ways to beat this fight, but these are pretty standard ways to do it.

We talked about this several time in the past.

I don't think "difficulty" is the real problem of this fight (especially in the final game where the player could eventually be able to level up even more before facing it), as much as the way the encounter is framed.
It's one of the first "main objectives" you are given and the player is constantly pressed (hell, let's say even nagged) by a companion to get there as quickly as possible.

Now, the issue is that once the event is triggered, the player isn't even offered the chance to back off, because in the very moment Lae'Zel rushes ahead to meet the patrol you are left with two options: beat the patrol on the spot or have a companion dying off screen if you leave the area.

I can tell you that a lot of people are going to experience a lot of frustration with this stuff when the game releases.
Game journalists in particular are going to lose their freaking mind about how "the game betrayed their trust" or some similar nonsense.

Thank you for the replies, all interesting. I agree that the githyanki should be formidable warriors, and that they block an area (path to moonrise tower?). The goblin camp, also blocking the path to moonrise tower, can be taken out with a 4th level party with a little help from Halsin. Still challenging, but more balanced. I argue however, that the githyanki should not be encountered before 6th level, unless they are somehow made less powerful. Perhaps the number is reduced to 3, which in the full release would mean you (4 5th level characters probably) versus what is in effect 3 7th level charcters then, still tough, but more balanced. And I don't mind tough unbalanced fights along the way with some treasure reward, as long as they can be avoided without missing an important part of the main story. And if for some reason you are one of those who find all the fights too easy there will probably be a level hard, or super hard, for you.

I know there are probably ways to win the fight but: They all exploit weaknesses of the game rather than weaknesses in your opponents. Having Lae'zel disarm 2 giths? She could easily be dead before getting the chance. But let us not discuss the fight, I know some have found a way to beat them and thus find it easy. A debate about whether it is an easy fight or not would be long and fruitless. I don't mind fights where you have to rethink your tactics and be clever, so it is not about that. It is about balancing.

I am also aware that in the full release you could just wait until you are level 6 (exploring the underdark), and then come back and beat the githyanki, but story wise it feels awkward.

I blew the horn I got from the abandoned village and had 3 nice fat allies that made the fight fairly easy.

In the first version of the EA I managed to beat them second try in a relatively fair way. (Shoving them down the bridge, else just using attacks, spells and items).
When the game is released we can be at least lv5 when we get there (another attack for martial classes, lv3 spells, better cantrips just to name a few things)

So I think the fight is OK as it is.
Plus the fight is optional. There are other ways to proceed to the next chapter.

As a completionist I will definitely try to clear the whole map before I continue, no matter if I continue this path or another one.

My most recent time I accidentally talked my way out of the fight by telling Lae'zel to carry on, but I did win once against them legitimately - only to have the save become unplayable from an update. You can also beat them easily with trainers if you really want to do it. But the biggest issue in beating them when I had to do it legitimately is the one guy who keeps using misty step endlessly.

This right here. I think the fight as it is right now is balanced. Once we get lvl 5 I think most people will be able to blow through the fight.

I mean you get told multiple times not to continue doen that path.

Sometimes being stupid and ignoring npcs needs to have cincenquences .

I love that encounter!

You can split the party up and position them up high.

You can solo them with any class really with the right items

But powergaming aside i think they put them into EA specifically as higher levels to get data and feedback regarding how well a large number of players fared against them.

Check out "Sin Tee" on you tube he has beat them solo with each class so far..........

I managed to beat them, but that does change my view in that the fight is unbalanced. First of all I had to restart a few times, because if you don't win initiative you are dead before you can blink. I used 3 potions of speed and several healing potions. I also blew the horn to summon the ogres, but they never showed up.

Key is to incapacitate Baretha first, she will down any character within reach first round with 3 super attacks. So I used hold person, and luckily she failed her saving throw. A cloud of daggers spell ensured she took damage each round, and again I was lucky that the invisible guy was within the cloud and became visible. How I managed to kill the remaining 3 guys was beyond my comprehension. One of them died before concentration on hold person was about to be broken, but I managed to kill Baretha first. Two left, much better odds now but still they gave me trouble and I had to reload a few times before killing the last.

What was wrong with this fight? 1) It took an extreme amount of luck and save/load. 2) I had to use items I could only use once. If other fights were like this I would soon run out of potions to get through the fights. And I honestly find it unsatisfactory to get through my battles using one-time use items rather than hard earned abilities. I understand if the occasional weapon/armor/item shows up that may add to a characters abilities, but that should be a rare thing, magic weapons should not be littered around everywhere. They should be rare and potent imo. It is not fun for me getting through every hard fight throwing bombs I find along the way, or drinking potions. It's not proper RPG. You want to see your character grow and be able to take on harder enemies by using class level abilities. Otherwise it is an adventure game, not RPG.

And to say you are not supposed to bump into this encounter in the first place? It is an important part of the story, Lae'zel seaching for her kin. Plus why have a part of the map you are not supposed to explore? In case you choose the above ground route to Moonrise Tower you have to get through the githyanki. If the choice you are given is a false choice that would make the game less rich I think. There is a choice I believe, because that allows you to play through the game in different ways. Plus we don't know yet if the main story will require that we find the githyanki camp.

Maybe in the full version when we can rise to 5th level it will be easier, but will still require luck and potions to win I am sure.

And this is everything wrong with BG3's combat. The exploits are as obvious as they are abundant. You don't even need items really since they provided that platform you can just Shove them down in various ways from.

The Dragon is the biggest mistake in that encounter though. They couldn't have made an iconic terrifying creature more mundane if they tried. It just sits there like a horse and doesn't burn the party to ashes even if provoked. The dragon rider also acts like an old Bond villain wanting you dead but not actually killing you and leaving instead. I would expect higher quality writing in a modern AAA RPG. The desire to use and show off awesome high level stuff already at low levels is too great here. The dragon rider could have just made a fly-over or left right after killing the Flaming Fist before the party meets them, leaving the party to deal with just the patrol for now.

The dragon could be something terrifying for a low level party to fear and AVOID at all cost, even when they look for a cure in the Creche. Fleeing and diplomacy / deals could very well be an option, to make you feel the progression LATER when you can actually fight one. But instead, it's a horse for now and later (soon probably) you get to fight the dragon. And I'm pretty Larian will provide a "fun" puzzle way for a low level party to kill it. I'd bet on a handy siege weapon nearby or letting a large boulder loose for massive free damage the dragon "won't see coming". Much like the teleporting Spider Queen makes herself vulnerable to amplified fall damage in her own lair. Because why wait for level appropriate challenges, right?

this is a point I'm surprised I never brought up myself. This is a required part of Lae'zel's companion quest. Why should it present such a difficulty bump compared to every other thing at this stage?

The Patrol fight is just another example of how bad the Act 1 storytelling and pacing is.

The entire goblin vs. druid plot feels like it should have been an Act 2 event AFTER you have a better understanding of the tadpole, what it can do and where it comes from. The Patrol fight feels like it probably should have been the climax of Act 1 as it clearly has major points for both Shadowheart and Lae'zel and relevant to events that will happen later. It would probably need a bit of redesign to make it better, but its current placement and implementation just doesn't feel good or interesting.