Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General Patch 8 introduced the first time I've ever been tempted to use the tadpole.

This sounds good to me.😊

Um. She has the Gith weapon. The Gith are attacking. Mind flayer doesn't have time to extract weapon just yet because he's fighting off dragons and Gith and imps. So, he throws her in a pod, throws up the magic barrier, pops the part out with his mind, throws it in a chest and orders the thrall to take the key and hide. This is just one possible explanation.

Again, what does this change do? It makes it harder to free SH. Thus, it causes players to stop and think instead of the obvious easy free SH of Patch 7. I mean, I NEVER didn't free her after they made it so easy to do so. Why not? Extra companion for final fight. Makes it even easier to get Zhalk's sword. Now, I pause. Use ILLITHID powers? Maybe I shouldn't free her. Do I want to succumb to the ILLITHID?

Second, it tempts players to actually use the powers. Previous attempts to tempt me are all lame. Every time I see Use ILLITHID powers, I ignore that option because usually it's invasive to companions or some NPC who might get ticked at me, or whatever. Besides, I know if I use it I'll probably turn faster. So, why would I want to use it?

The game needs more real temptations to lure players to use it. If they don't, I'll probably only ever use the powers just on garbage playthroughs where I want to see what happens, not actual roleplay. I mean, even as my evil Drow sorcerer, I wouldn't usually use the powers because I know I'll turn faster. It's kinda a no brainer.

We need lures for good and evil playthroughs. Realm solid lures.

You can head canon all you want, but let's be honest, it's clear that this is just an arbitrary choice to make "good" players have to think twice about saving SH in the beginning.

I feel that without meta gaming, it's good to have an opportunity to need to use the illithid power a first time, so that the stakes are made a little more clear. Of course just using it once means hearing a voice before your next long rest, so maybe that's not exactly the scariest thing.

I know you're only throwing in an example, but if only a Mindflayer can use the part, then why hide it? What can the Gith do with it? A dragon would likely rip the pod open anyway ;-).

However I get what you're aiming for in terms of harder choices with regards to using the tadpole, but this for me is the wrong moment for it. We have zero idea as new players what is going on and the console option with the part makes little to no mention (that I recall) that you are using a power you shouldn't have.

The (very rough) concept I was putting forward introduces the player to this, and makes you think "ooh I can open the pod jsut like that, cooo...waaaait a minute, Do I want this?!". It doesn't even show you that you have other options (unless Barb probably, not played one), it gives you an immediate temptation. Like it is now, not only do I have to jump through hoops getting a pointlessly hidden switch, but now it also has a detrimental affect upon me.

To boot, once you have played through once, you know how virtually pointless it is to open SH's pod, other than the aformentioned approval, as you meet her almost just as immediately after the crash as if you saved her and she still joins you, so there is no great choice here. The only benefit I really see is having an extra pair of hands on the Nautiloid if you want to attack and get the flaming sword.

Now, one COULD as you put forward, put more stock into this early decision being trickier, but there should be more "hints". Masking this means that the player is prone to accidentally selecting an option that could have big rammifications later on with no knowledge that that is what is happening. Yes Witcher 3 did this for example, but it almost exclusively impacted other characters and you experienced their pain/story impact, nor was there anything within the first 10mins of gameplay.

Going forward however, I totally agree. Once we know of the tadpole and what it has or doesn't have to offer, the decisions can be made to be a lot tougher and I would welcome that. Nothing like a tough decision with real consequences only shown down the line, to promote multiple playthroughs.

My point is that it is an actual temptation to use the powers. In order to potentially save a companion character, you might have to compromise... or you might just have to stick to what your gut tells you "DON'T USE THE TADPOLE, LUKE" and have faith that she'll somehow be okay.

It's a whole lot better than, "Do you want to use your tadpole powers to pry into Gale's head to learn his secrets?" No. I'm not going to pry. Even if I'm bad, I probably won't pry because I need allies to survive. That's not much of a temptation. As a good person, having to decide whether to save SH from the pod or not, and knowing if I don't I am giving up a potential companion for the helm fight, that's a bit more of a serious temptation.

My point was, they can explain it a bunch of different ways, and by providing this one little tweak, making it so you have to use the tadpole to save her, they now make not saving her a bit more tempting than in previous patches where you could just unlock the chest, place the piece in the machine and set her free.

This playthrough, I saved her once and I didn't save her once depending on what I felt each character would do. One would compromise and use the strange new powers to save her while the other was like, "Um. Sorry. I have to use some strange powers to save you? I don't think so."

It was nice to see Shadowheart at the dank crypt entrance again like it was in the earlier patches before I could save her on the nautiloid. I hadn't seen that dialogue play out in quite some time.

I feel like using the tadpole needs to come with downsides, especially considering the true soul in the Grimforge is clearly loosing his mind.

But at the same time this isn't a mistake that be fixed by reloading 5 minutes back like boning Morinth from Mass Effect 2, dumber players could waste hundreds of hours.

The thrall basically has a key for the key

Hopefully this is a bug. Not a fan forced use of tadpole. I couldn't even use the sigil/stone/whatever to open it.

You're not forced. Like I did, you have a choice to tell SH, "Sorry. I can't find a way to open it.". Then you'll see her again by the crypt. It's not that big a deal if you don't give in to the dark side. That's part of why I think it's a good temptation. It's not "SH will literally die if you don't use the tadpole, Luke."

Sorry haven't played it yet. Is this encounter bugged or not? Someone said the tadpole option just said Wisdom not Illithid Wisdom. There is no problem to me with having tempting situations come up for using the tadpole. There is a problem not telling me I'm using it.


This divergence is imo going to be important, and I'm afraid Larian is pushing for the assumption most people will interact with it some. I'm not sure a "good" player who never once uses the tadpole is going to end up all that different, if not overall indeed worse off... like the tadpole using player ends up able to complete the game, somehow cures the tadpole but still gets to keep the powers.

Back at patch 3 I did some testing with Omeluum... https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=751014&page=1 I haven't played since the druid patch and haven't been to Grimforge, so there have been changes and additions since my testing. Omeluum's initial assessment of the tadpole was the same regardless of level of use.

Honestly I don't think its a "way to tempt you" I think its just to add some narrative sense to the tadpole over you only having access to it in the grove. I do get that I also would like options to not have to use it aside then playing a Barbarian... I honest thought that if you succeeded the Arcana check on the console it was gonna be an alternative way to open it but no its just telling you what you already know this console is gonna open the pod.

Also note we don't know what happens if you keep using the tadpole yet.. as far as we know if you only go as far as the conversation in camp about " Do we keep using those powers or not" you might be perfectly fine.

I'm not a fan as it makes no sense for why Shadowheart's pod requires using the tadpole, but the machine that instantly starts the ceremorphosis doesn't require that you use the tadpole. Or most importantly: That the transponder where you controll the nautiloid DOESN'T have this kind of safety precaution!

This is an interesting thread. TL:DR; This change is positive, in my opinion.

First I would note that although WotC have de-emphasised alignment ( so "good" vs "evil" should be less of a focus ), Larian did initially ask us to try out the "evil" path. Since the major discriminating decisions we can make comprise those accepting or rejecting the "help" of the Illithid tadpole, it is reasonable to link those to good and evil, at least in a general sense.

In the situation we are roleplaying, however, I would not consider it immediately obvious that employing the tadpole while on the Nautiloid has any particular implications. Until you understand something, it is difficult to characterize it, so using the tadpole to interface with local Nautiloid systems, would not necessarily, and obvioulsly, be "evil".

While all characters would, in principle, be likely to recoil from any path that seems to interact with the "thing" placed in their skull ( whether or not characters are familiar with Illithids and their tadpoles ), does that override all other considerations of "good" and "evil"?

In particular, with Shadowheart in the Nautiloid, you are faced with the choice of releasing a fellow-victim, or probably consigning her to death. Ignoring all foreshadowed knowledge you now have about how the game plays ( which may not actually be true of the released game anyway ), I would argue that releasing SH, regardless of the cost to yourself, is unambiguously a "good" act.

In my mind, a paragon of "good" would not hesitate in this decision, and would selflessly choose to release SH. A "neutral" or "evil" character would balance the extra ally against the risk they perceive to themselves. It is a pure role-play decision, but one that greatly favours a player releasing SH, and thereby introducing the player to what may be the game's most important story mechanic, without any real in-game consequences.

As far as EA goes ( which may not remain true in the released game ), the continued use of the tadpole, and the consequences during long rests, advance a player's understanding of both story elements and personal risk. There is frequent, and ample, opportunity over time to understand that you are trading advantage ( power ) for disadvantage ( subservience ), and when approaching a point of no-return, you are left in no doubt, as there is a dialog that tells you that using the tadpole again will change you.

In EA this seems to do nothing other than change the "[ILLITHID]{WISDOM]" tag on auto-succeed dialog options to a "[TRUE SOUL]" tag, but I haven't played through as a True Soul often enough ( or recently enough ) to know if I have missed changed behaviour. But, I would be surprised ( and very disappointed ) if the released game did not play very differently depending upon this decision.

All these folks assuming the tadpole powers are bad when they're actually precious. Shaking my head.

Just accidentally burn SH to death by trying to explode the tank next to her to damage her container and set her free... and then all of this is moot!

No Illithid powers, plus you get control of the artifact, win-win.

Edit: Now I need to try out and see if I can burn the MF in its tank using the same method. Hmm, you can burn it, but I don't think there are enough tanks to actually kill it.

...they're actually precious...m-my precious

omg lol

TAV: "I'm helping!!"

SH: "*sobbing* please stop"

I can't remember what the tags say but the subtitle text definitely implies the tadpole is going to be involved. I assume the spoken part would be the same but I play with sound off so not completely sure.