Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General Patch 8 introduced the first time I've ever been tempted to use the tadpole.

Tbf it makes sense regular thralls can use elevators and healing devices but not the pods. Particularly Shadow's pod which seems to be a higher security deal

Huh? The tadpole isn't even a alignment thing. Its a trap/stupidity thing. Smart characters of all alignments won't use it.

I haven't seen it yet, but it seems like a cheap way to temp the player into using the tadpole. Now, if they actually made it so the tadpole was actually good and trying to help you, THAT would be an awesome twist lol. As it is though, it feels like a "you want early Shadowheart? pay the price for it" moment, which is ...eh.

I really like this change myself, they seem to be tying a lot of power to the tadpole so If you side with Minthara there is also a scene where she is supposed to give you ''power''. You get nothing as is in EA, but I am sure you will upon release.

Evil should tempt you with power and it should feed on your greed, and this is yet another scene that supports that. Or well, in this case, it is more along the line of ''the road to hell is paved with good intentions''.

I like this change - adds some weight to the choice and consequences of the game.

It makes sense for the scenario too - needing to use a Mindflayer-like connection to operate their tech.

to be clear, [at this time] your character doesn't know more than 'this is how I save that girl'... being evil or good doesn't come into it yet

I really liked the change. More Larian. Make the tadpole truly tempting. That's the [oint. The Dark Side is quick, easy, and seductive. 👹

Join the Dark Side. We have cookies. 🤪

No, but seriously. Make the choices hard like that. Make it so players have to really struggle with temptation. I loved it!

I'm not a fan, personally - I feel there should be a clean possibility for the character to get her out that isn't dependant on specific class choices; the tadpole exists as an option if you struggle and fail; then it's a temptation in the truest sense, because you've tried and failed to do something that you clearly have signalled to the game that you want to do... and *then* the tadpole is there to say "Well, you could do that thing, if you really want to... just let me in a bit, and you can, guaranteed."

If using the tadpole is the only actual way to do the thing that you want to do, then you aren't making a choice to use the tadpole - your choice was the thing you wanted to do, and the tadpole is then the forced only way to do it, and that's going to leave a dissatisfying taste for some people, and others won't be tempted at all. This may seem like splitting hairs to some, but it's an important distinction that has RP weight and impact. I would much prefer my temptations to darkness be made in moments of weakness or failure, when I want or need something that I've personally failed to manage... and I give in, and take the easy way to get there, because I want it, and I couldn't manage it on my own. That's true temptation.

I'd also venture if you do it that way, then it will actually reduce a certain amount of save-scumming for desired outcomes, because more people will be inclined, when they fail, to take that step when it's offered, rather than reloading multiple times. It enhances immersion and roleplay and helps to keep people in the space.

For example:

Everyone, regardless of class, should be able to try to pry the pod open, and should have a chance of succeeding - albeit a hard, but not unbeatable DC; a 17-18 would be fair, for a level 1 character. Everyone can try this... upon failing this a barbarian can get a second try, with the option to expend a rage and take the check again with advantage. this way everyone can try, but the class with a specific ability to give them advantage in this situation has the option to use it and has that edge.

Everyone, regardless of class, should be able to try to disrupt the runic warding that kept the pod shut, and should have a chance of succeeding, again - difficult but not completely unbeatable. Class or race abilities that give you an edge here should be able to come into play for those classes.

Everyone should have a pretty good chance of failing these attempts; they should be hard checks for a level 1 character to make... and the tadpole provides the guarantee, that you can be tempted by when you fail to do what you really want.

This is all nice and good in theory but in practice... people savescum. If you give people an option that can be guaranteed after a load or two, they will do it.

And so(nearly) no one would use the tadpole to free her and it would once again fail to tempt you to use the tadpole. Some options being open to you only if you utilize your newfound power is completely fine, and only when doing so results in the ''good'' outcome, will people generally be tempted by it in the first place.

+1 - totally agree.

An interesting thought, but it would need reworking the entire game because none of the encounters are built like this.

This is the only scene (i think) where using the tadpole is mandatory for most classes. Everywhere else, the tadpole tempts you by being a shortcut rather than a fallback. If you decide to roll for deception, there’s no going back to using the tadpole.

At least this way, the evil path is always available to players. It’s not contingent on players failing a check, which might feel limiting to some.

On an UI note, I wish the game showed which party members still have their “tadpole influence charge” for the day. It’s easy to forget who’s got what left on long days when several PCs started conversations.

It might be purely because I knew you needed the key from previous playthroughs, and I just didn't pay enough attention this time round, but it wasn't obvious to me at the time that I was using the Tadpole until I activated the key and I saw the animation, as in I did not see it labelled as use tadpole vs don't use it. I am sure in the past it highlighted that you were using the tadpole next to the dialogue option before you selected it. Did I miss it?

For me I wouldn't tie the key to the tadpole but give the player the choice to use the console without the key. It would be a good introduction/tutorial of, be quick and use Tadpole, or look for an alternative solution.

No issue later on having tougher choices, but at the beginning I would prefer it to be a little more "obvious". YOu could even put in a mini fight at the key location, because right now there is no reason not to go get the key (other than the tadpole I guess, but frankly the exploration to find the key is just a minor inconvenience). However if the key was held by an opponent I would have to fight, I might turn back rather than fight and use the tadpole to circumevent the need for the key.

I agree. I also think that to first-time players this could feel like a choice in the same sense that using the escape pod in KotOR is a "choice," i.e.required if you wish to complete the main quest.

But it's just a choice of whether you want SH now or later, but first time players wouldn't know that. They'd think, "Do I risk this? If I don't, will she die?". It's the perfect time for a temptation, and it makes sense. To use an ILLITHID device, you must have ILLITHID powers,

I will say, though, it didn't really say you were using powers. It just said, "Wisdom". I'd prefer at least a "Use Innate Power welling up within you" or something like that.

I have to wonder where the two paths will diverge, if they even do diverge when it comes to the illithid powers. Will there be a point where if you've used the powers a certain amount, you no longer have a choice in a story point? Or will people that never used them and those that used them constantly end up with the same choices in the end? It would be disappointing to have something so integral to the game end up meaning not much at all.

That said, if they're going to make using illithid devices use illithid powers, then they should be consistent. Elevator? powers. Healing station? powers. using the console in the bridge? powers. Otherwise, this one decision ends up very much seeming like a "you want cute girl? you use bad powers" moment.

It's time for Niara to work on Baldur's Gate 3.

I don't know about every device. SH is a special prisoner, held in a special pod device meant to keep her locked up for good. So, to me, it makes sense that it requires an ILLITHID to unlock it.

Then why is the key for it with a Thrall?

Mind flayer puts her in the pod. Mind flayer takes out part and puts it in chest to really make sure no one frees her. Mind flayer gives key to thrall and orders them to go into the pod chamber and hide for further further safe keeping.

Why is the Mindflayer concerned about anyone freeing her, we're on a Nautiloid and if I am that worried, I would keep on my person (i.e. the Mindflayer would keep key/part on "person").

I could understand the logic that a Thrall needs a part to use the machines, but not a Mindflayer. I personally would split the "open" options into:

- Get key to get part to be able to open pod without using "junior" (safe non strength ability, but perhaps with additional difficulty in getting the key)
- Smash Pod if strong enough (Barb skill)
- Use Strange new ability that is offered to you in order to use the machine without any extra part. I would also have that "temptation" spring to mind the moment you look at the console, so that it really comes across as an immediate time saver.