Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General Elves are not Elven - Tel-quessir feed back ;)

The darkest timeline!

"Gimp"...that's freeware, right? Myself, I have experience (just experience and not expertise ) with Adobe Photoshop and I don't believe I could pull off a manipulation/edit that convincing. How the hell does a company with millions of dollars to burn and supposedly professional artists with access to D&D art from EVERY edition do a poorer job than an individual such as yourself?

It stands for GNU image manipulation program, basically an open source PS with very similar functionality for most things. Manipulating a 3d mesh is different than tweaking a 2d portrait in BG, but the principles are basically the same. Neleothesze's quick edit shows how they could take a standard human face/head and just morph it within various parameters to get a different look for the fantasy race version of that same face. I believe they have already done this for many of the heads currently available, but it is difficult to notice when they're hidden behind the cycler that only displays each face one at a time.

I think a larger selection of presets should display together as a bid grid, so showing several faces at once in a matrix. If the default is Human, then have it display say 12-36 human heads of the chosen sex. Then if the player clicks "Elf" it would show those same 12-36 heads having undergone the standard morph for Elves. Once the basic face is selected, we should have the option to exaggerate the features by pushing the morph further or dialing it back if desired, depending on whether one wants a more alien looking Elf or a more Human style one. Do the same with each race/face. Once the face is chosen, the same sort of display should work with other major selections like hairstyle. So instead of clicking 36 times to cycle through each hairstyle, you'd see your chosen face with 36 haircuts shown all at once. Pick the one you like and then it zooms back in to do all the cosmetic and color change type stuff.

ps. also when I say 12-36 heads, I mean show that many heads at a go and cycle that way - in pages rather than 1 by 1 or selecting from a list. I actually think they need at least 100 preset heads for each sex to properly execute that sort of design, but if they did it they'd have a really solid scheme to build off of.

A big part of such a presentation would be to show off the actual extent of the work, rather than hiding it behind the cycling. The cycler may create the illusion of more variety, but it's just a time sink and an impediment to the player quickly finding what they actually want out of what's available. With a survey view the player can see what's there at a glance. Doing it in a head matrix would be a simple way to showcase the variety and make it easier to see where there are gaps to fill in.

The morph to different fantasy race would have a sort of vfx movie-magic appeal too. Sort of like you're seeing the faces after the prosthetic makeup was all in place. Once you got what you want, zoom back in to selection to noodle around with the cosmetics and such. Again doing that in a grid view wherever possible. If there are 12 eye colors or 12 lip shade colors or whatever, let us see them all together at a glance. What I want from a character creator is just that, a way to present the many options in a visual overview. Basically a case of heads to choose from, like Mombi. I think it would just be a lot more efficient, while looking cooler at the same time.

If the heads were supposedly pulled/scanned from real human models, how were those end results achieved? The obvious answer seems obvious, but that's the thing: it may be so obvious that it is in fact incorrect.

They have all the hair options for everyone. Why not all the face options too for everyone? Some humans in RL look like dwarves, for example, so if all faces in BG3 we're available no matter the race, I could make a human who looks more like a dwarf.

And this would make it so those who want pointy eared human elves could create them, but for those who want more traditional elves they could make them as well - provided they actually add a few faces that really look more elven.

I'm just saying. I'd hate it if they took away one of my favorite drow faces because someone thought it wasn't even enough.

Agreed. As has already been said in this thread, different versions of some of the faces already appear for more than one race, with tweaks applied to make them look a bit different. And I’d also be happy to see this applied more generally, with morphed versions of all heads (to emphasise characteristics suitable for the different races) available to all races. Or I suppose the faces could just be exactly the same, though I think I’d prefer Larian to try to make more elf-y, dwarf-y, gnome-y, etc versions of the faces as long as they didn’t go overboard.

It might make for some very odd looking githyanki, though, I suppose.

Fully agree!
Some face models might need some adjustments (removing/adding horns or changing ears size for instance) but that seems like a fairly doable adaptation of the existing CC options.
And I'm always up for more options of course :p for all the races.

Given the number of people making those type of requests and the fact that they like to add new face models for certain npcs every now and then, I'm ready to bet they're already on it. Even if it's only for the full release.


Good point. Might needs some exceptions? Or adapting the nose on existing non-githyanki models?

So ...
What do you think about new Galadriel?
(Yes i know its different universe.)

Personaly i would be quite satisfied if we would get simmilar elf head. O:)

Ugh no thanks, most of the Elves in The Rings of Power look far too human except with pointed ears...and don't get me started on those slick haircuts. Galadriel in the Rings of Power looks like she is from Rohan, she would have made a fine Eowyn. Cate Blanchett at least has a slight otherworldly look to her, which translated well enough to playing an Elf.

Digressing here, but I turned off Episode 1 after 20 minutes; terrible dialogue and wooden acting.

From Rings of Power I love the elven armor with the leaf face. It would be great to have some elven armor like that in BG3!

Pretty much was I was going to say The BG3 Elves are waaay more Elf than those haircuts in RoP. I can't call them Elves hence the term haircut.

It's important to mention that Tolkien Elves =/= Forgotten Realms elves too. They have certain proportions that are somewhat uncommon in humans, particularly in combination together. Closer to, but not as extreme as DOS2 elves than humans, really. you might be able to get something closer to the typical elven physique by modding/reskinning the Githyanki model, maybe something that modders could even do. But they heads would have to be reworked IMO. I believe I have said it before, but bigger eyes rotated inwards a bit would go a long ways even if the faces weren't otherwise touched.

AFAIK this *might* be possible for modders to do-one really gifted one did a face scan of themselves and managed to mod their own head into the game already IIRC. I'm not technically/artistically skilled enough for that personally though, and I can't really anticipate what sort of technical problems doing something like messing with eye sizes might cause.

I'm fond of Tolkien's work, but, in terms of physiognomy (and, to a lesser extent, overall anatomy), his elves are quite boring (both in literature and in every live-action adaptation). One needs to go elsewhere to find Tolkien-inspired elves that - facially, at least - look elfin...in the modern popular-culture
sense of the word.

Tolkien's elves are supposed to be "perfect" in appearance, without any excessive features (and with ears that are "only slightly pointy"(c)) that other iterations and settings would introduce. The Tel-Quessir with their sharper, elongated faces and a little (or very, in case of the aquatic elves) webbed-ish ears, and their almond eyes would probably not recognize any kinship with them, and neither would the Eldar, the Mer, and the Pathfinder elves who, again, just are distressing to look at, honestly (and it's a little awkward how three out of a total of I think four elf-coded portraits in Kingmaker look nothing like the model, instead having normal proportions and not-bug-eyes).

His work may have been a huge inspiration for pretty much every high-fantasy setting that would come later, but it would be heavily vulgarized and misinterpreted either on purpose or because the author wouldn't read past the facade, like with elves and dwarves popularly hating each other (which they didn't really in Middle-Earth, the whole wood elf moment in the Hobbit is how they'd treat most hapless idiots who'd go through their woods uninvited), or halflings (the race Tolkien invented in the first place) being reckless, quirky, and naturally roguish rather than the mellow, stay-at-home types.

That's about enough of going on a tangent, I think.

To be honest ... i dont care.
Her face seem elfish enough to me. :P

Yeah but she doesn't look ElVish

Was this really necesary?

Jako jesli ti to vyhovuje víc, tak ti můžu psát příspěvky takhle a překládej si to sám. :-/

Tolkien elves: https://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Elven_characteristics

Forgotten Realms elves:

Elves stood on average 5′4″‒6′0″ (1.6‒1.8 m) and weighed 130‒170 lb (59‒77 kg). Usually, true elves were a naturally slender and athletic race.[11] Elves had a similar range of complexions to humans, with wood elves typically coppery or pale skinned and wild elves having darker pigmentation. Often, elven hair was dark, either brown or black, with copper red or blond hair also found amongst wood elves,[12] although orange or even green hues were not completely unheard of.[11] Elven eyes were commonly brown, hazel, or an emerald green.[12] Elves, like their cousins the eladrin, were fair and beautiful, handsome, and had pointed ears and no body hair except eyebrows, eyelashes, and hair.

D&D Beyond elves:

Slender and Graceful
With their unearthly grace and fine features, elves appear hauntingly beautiful to humans and members of many other races. They are slightly shorter than humans on average, ranging from well under 5 feet tall to just over 6 feet. They are more slender than humans, weighing only 100 to 145 pounds. Males and females are about the same height, and males are only marginally heavier than females.

Elves’ coloration encompasses the normal human range and also includes skin in shades of copper, bronze, and almost bluish-white, hair of green or blue, and eyes like pools of liquid gold or silver. Elves have no facial and little body hair. They favor elegant clothing in bright colors, and they enjoy simple yet lovely jewelry.

Yes. Quite different, but not really. It depends on your interpretation. Most artistic renditions of elves from the earliest of Forgotten Realms books look nothing like what is described above. Some images of Drow look like crusty old human men, for example. Some versions of elves in the same said book covers look like humans with pointy ears.

Basically, nothing in the above description says elves can't look like humans with pointy ears.

It was a joke, clearly playing on the variant spellings of the plural of Elf. Was it really necessary to post something in your native language which I can't be arsed to translate?