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#822743 22/07/22 05:44 PM
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JandK Offline OP
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Try as I might, I can't bring myself to care. I don't care that I can't micro-manage my reactions. I don't care that they're only passive toggles. All I know is that I *DON'T* want popups in the middle of fights, and I don't want some "casting" system where I preplan my reactions by selecting targets every turn.

But I accept that other folks do care, and passionately, for some reason.

*

So, here's my proposed solution:

Give the players unlimited reactions.

*

Worried that Tav might use an AOO instead of a Feather Fall? Well, worry not. Just do both.

Having multiple reactions in one turn isn't going to break the game. And if it shuts everyone up then I'm all for it, lol.

*

Yes, there's still a concern about using a spell slot on a weak goblin instead of a tough bug bear, but whatever. Maybe tweak Hellish Rebuke so it works for a certain number of turns, harming everyone who hits you during that time frame. Or just deal with it. Again, whatever.

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Originally Posted by JandK
*

So, here's my proposed solution:

Give the players unlimited reactions.

*

Worried that Tav might use an AOO instead of a Feather Fall? Well, worry not. Just do both.

Having multiple reactions in one turn isn't going to break the game. And if it shuts everyone up then I'm all for it, lol.

*

Yes, there's still a concern about using a spell slot on a weak goblin instead of a tough bug bear, but whatever. Maybe tweak Hellish Rebuke so it works for a certain number of turns, harming everyone who hits you during that time frame. Or just deal with it. Again, whatever.

And in the process move even further from 5e rules?

If anything BG3 needs to be closer to 5e rules, rather than deviate even more than it already does. I'd rather deal with the horrible implementation we have now, than having stuff like unlimited (or an increased number of) reactions.

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Lol. Ok. I accept that you passionately don't want pop ups. But I don't care about your feelings if those pop-ups will get me a better micro-managing reaction system. So that I don't use that spell slot on a weak goblin, or a measly cantrip.

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Well, that's an exceptionally bad take, but ok.


Party control in Baldur's Gate 3 is a complete mess that begs to be addressed. SAY NO TO THE TOILET CHAIN
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This guy's never playing a paladin I bet

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Originally Posted by JandK
So, here's my proposed solution:

Give the players unlimited reactions.

+1

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Originally Posted by JandK
Originally Posted by JandK
So, here's my proposed solution:

Give the players unlimited reactions.
+1
???
It's not a "plus one vote" if you're the OP. Your vote was already counted. Did you think you were logged into an alternate account?

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Originally Posted by mrfuji3
Originally Posted by JandK
Originally Posted by JandK
So, here's my proposed solution:

Give the players unlimited reactions.
+1
???
It's not a "plus one vote" if you're the OP. Your vote was already counted. Did you think you were logged into an alternate account?

lol, no, I just took another look at it and strongly agreed with myself. Plus, I thought it was funny.

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the dude abides

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JandK Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Kendaric
If anything BG3 needs to be closer to 5e rules...

I disagree. There's nothing sacred about the rules. Homebrew is a part of DnD. Always has been.

*

I notice no one has bothered arguing why unlimited reactions are bad.

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I don't see the purpose of this post. It's more like "i don't care, prove me wrong". ok


add hexblade warlock, pls
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a simple example. You're a paladin. You divine smite a lot. So you have unlimited reactions, does it mean that you can divine smite more than once per turn? If so, that's ridicously stupid, sorry

Last edited by mercurial_ann; 22/07/22 10:06 PM.

add hexblade warlock, pls
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Originally Posted by JandK
I notice no one has bothered arguing why unlimited reactions are bad.

Ok, so far the AI can do what we do, right? Do I really want an opponent to do an AoO, and a counter spell, and a shield spell and a readied action(if we get those) on one turn? Most probably not. And even if only our party is allowed to do it, would I want to just so you can turn a tactical game more arpg-esque...no, no I don't.

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Originally Posted by mercurial_ann
I don't see the purpose of this post. It's more like "i don't care, prove me wrong". ok

The purpose is the suggestion of unlimited reactions. I'm not sure how I could have written that in a clearer way, but I know English isn't everyone's first language here, so I will try harder. Thank you for letting me know it was difficult for you to understand.

Originally Posted by mercurial_ann
a simple example. You're a paladin. You divine smite a lot. So you have unlimited reactions, does it mean that you can divine smite more than once per turn? If so, that's ridicously stupid, sorry

Why is that "stupid"? Other than: it's not what you're used to so you don't like it?

Originally Posted by PrivateRaccoon
Ok, so far the AI can do what we do, right? Do I really want an opponent to do an AoO, and a counter spell, and a shield spell and a readied action(if we get those) on one turn?

Sure, as long as the enemy is prepared and such.

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Unlimited reactions: one single caster with counterspell makes basically impossible to cast any magic at all during a turn.

Two possible divergent scenarios:

- Casting it costs a spell slot as it should? A bunch of morons firing basic cantrips is enough to leave the caster completely out of spell slots in a single turn.

- Casting counterspell becomes a free resource to "prevent wastes" and does NOT cost a spell slot? No one will be able to use magic anymore, I guess?

___________________________

Just a case out of dozens, but then again I don't really feel like this is a proposal that is supposed to be taken seriously.
It feels like a troll thread to rub on everyone's face that the OP "doesn't care".

Last edited by Tuco; 22/07/22 10:23 PM.

Party control in Baldur's Gate 3 is a complete mess that begs to be addressed. SAY NO TO THE TOILET CHAIN
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Originally Posted by JandK
I don't want some "casting" system where I preplan my reactions by selecting targets every turn.

Who has ever suggested such a system ?

I think I'd have to go deeper into it to explain it better !
(I'll do it even if you dont care so there's no point at trying to stop me ! grin )

Last edited by Maximuuus; 22/07/22 10:24 PM.

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Originally Posted by JandK
Why is that "stupid"? Other than: it's not what you're used to so you don't like it?
Because at this case you'll burn out all your spell slots without having any control on them. If it is not stupid, then I don't know what is


add hexblade warlock, pls
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Originally Posted by JandK
I notice no one has bothered arguing why unlimited reactions are bad.
It removes some tactical decision making, as you no longer have to consider the opportunity cost: "is this ability worth spending my reaction on?"

It makes D&D even more nova-esque:
- opposing sides can burst down the opposing side much faster due to damaging reactions
- I suppose this is counteracted by defensible reactions being more usable, but often they don't stack (e.g., resistance, disadvantage). Additionally, this is still nova-ing except instead of damage, the nova is all resource-abilities (spells, superiority dice, etc) being used the 1st and 2nd turns of combat.

It throws many things out of balance. Anything involving a reaction (especially AoOs) are now significantly more powerful as they essentially lose their reaction cost. Larian already seems to be struggling balancing their homebrew and keeping the game tactical. Off the top of my head I can't say what exact reaction-dependent strategy becomes OP, but I'm certain there is one.
- In particular, this decision likely buffs casters way more than martials, and casters are already super strong especially in BG3 with the ease of long resting.

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Originally Posted by JandK
I disagree. There's nothing sacred about the rules. Homebrew is a part of DnD. Always has been.

*

I notice no one has bothered arguing why unlimited reactions are bad.

My own personal stance on the rules is that I'd rather BG3 move closer to them ONLY because they're better than most of the homebrew stuff that had and currently exist in BG3. If the homebrew stuff to the core combat rules didn't break the balance as badly as they did, I don't think people would have cared as much. Note that after surfaces got tuned down, and that height advantage/disadvantage got tuned down to a simple +2 bonus on high ground (which is still homebrew), people suddenly stopped arguing about them.

I'm going to say it again for the people in the back: Stop beating that damn strawman, because there aren't any purists on this forum for there to be any worth in arguing about whether the very concept of homebrewing is inherently bad or not. After all this time, it should be extremely obvious to anyone that someone still trying to argue this is doing it in bad faith and willingly ignoring context.

As for unlimited reactions, don't think you're the only person who considered this over the entire past year and a half of the EA process. The reason no one is taking your hypothetical solution seriously is because it's already immediately obvious what the end result will be. It doesn't actually fix anything and introduces more even problems than its worth. Like, you know (or at least I hope you do), literally everything else that got reverted in BG3 thus far.

Take the below scenarios, which would be extremely common under your suggestion:

1) For one, have fun blowing ALL of your high level spell slots during turns 1-2, because you automatically counterspelled every single spell cast by that entire party of enemy mages. The same would also apply to your entire party attempting to cast spells against an enemy spellcaster. You basically automatically cancel each other out at the start of a fight. At least under normal rules, there are ways to get around this, like trying to bait each other's reactions first.

2) And have fun dealing with enemy mages who get to use Shield (which is once per turn but lasts until the start of their next turn, so your solution won't make a difference to this part) AND Counterspell at the same time. Which ties into my previous point of trying to bait reactions. Now not only are all mages capable of counterspelling multiple times per turn, they can do it while having higher AC from Shield at the same time, so it's harder for physical characters in general to shut them down. We're trying to aim for more strategy, not LESS.

3) Protection fighting style, if implemented, would make some fights excessively annoying under your proposal. For the uninitiated, Protection fighting style allows a party member wielding a shield to use their reaction to impose disadvantage on an enemy attack aimed at a nearby party member. Now, imagine a group of Paladin archers with shields strapped to their backs, and the archers are programmed to never leave each other's side whenever possible. Since BG3 currently doesn't differentiate between weapon sets in terms of stats right now (for example, a College of Valor Bard can have a rapier/shield equipped on one set, and a bow on the other set, and still benefit from the shield AC increase while wielding said bow), it would be safe to assume that the archers could also use Protection fighting style to impose effectively permanent disadvantage against every incoming attack. Now, you could counter this by just lobbing saving throw spells at them, unless for some reason there happens to be a wizard with Counterspell somewhere in that group too.

The vast majority of reactions are also tied to resources, or are effectively once per turn because their effects last for a whole turn, so your suggestion wouldn't affect those at all (if anything, it'd be the combination of those reactions and all the other reactions that would break things). There's also stuff like the ability to perform multiple opportunity attacks in the same turn, or if ready actions are implemented, being able to execute that action multiple times for every enemy that moves within range (which would be extremely busted for archers).

If anything, your suggestion happens to be a strong argument for why certain OTHER things shouldn't get implemented if it comes to pass.

Originally Posted by mercurial_ann
I don't see the purpose of this post. It's more like "i don't care, prove me wrong". ok

Yeah, pretty much. I've been teetering between the line of dropping an insulting one-liner after seeing them give a +1 to themselves or outright ignoring the thread entirely, but settled on slapping this dude with at least one serious reply.

Now we get to watch as he most likely abandons this thread.

Originally Posted by mercurial_ann
a simple example. You're a paladin. You divine smite a lot. So you have unlimited reactions, does it mean that you can divine smite more than once per turn? If so, that's ridicously stupid, sorry

To be fair, Smite isn't a reaction, everyone just keeps including it in these conversations because it's assumed that the way you use it will require the same kind of programming it would take to get reactions working in this game, as it is a choice-based ability. Smite already works as you described, you can smite multiple times in the same turn based on how many attacks you are able to make (and land), and you can even smite on successful opportunity attacks.

Last edited by Saito Hikari; 22/07/22 11:18 PM.
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i meant that in his system you could smite twice(or more) even if you don't have extra attack


add hexblade warlock, pls
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