Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General Why wisdom?

The illithid rolls are wisdom based. I wonder why. Aren't illithid powers based on intellect?

Ilithad casting is intelligence based...saves are based on the type of attack (the nature of it).

It may be WiS due to the "Absolute's" influence over the tadpole.

The fool thinks he is a wise man; the wise man knows he is a fool.

because a wise man knows nothing comes free

Not even those peanuts on the nice plane ride?

I don't mean saves.

I'm talking about the [Authority] rolls and the Wisdom rolls to read minds.

Shouldn't all of those rolls be Int based?

If they were purely Illithid powers, then yes.
But those tadpoles have been tampered with and we don't know how much the Absolute (or who else) is involved. If divine beings/magic are involved in the tadpole creation, it would make perfect sense that their powers work with Wisdom rather than Intelligence.

We don't fully understand the tadpole - we haven't studied it, learned exactly what mental actions result in what effects, etc. We're feeling our way through usings its powers for our own benefit. And feeling your way through a thing, using your intuition: that's definitely Wisdom. At least that's my take on it.

If we were subjugating the tadpole to unwillingly follow our instructions (e.g., use it to harm the Absolute) then that'd be more of a Cha check - Opposed Personality/Force-of-Will check. But, for now at least, the tadpole wants to be used more than anything, so we're not fighting against it.

Does a starting sorcerer use wisdom instead of charisma because he's just figuring things out, feeling his way through how to use his powers?

How about a wizard's apprentice?

While I appreciate trying to come up with reasons why, sometimes I think it's better to just say it should probably be based on Intelligence.

A wizard's apprentice uses Int because Wizards cast spells by studying them, i.e., learning them. They have only studied and understand (intellectually) basic magic: cantrips or maybe 1st level spells. So it makes perfect sense that wizard apprentices use Intelligence.

Sorcerer could be a wisdom caster--growing in power as they become more in-tune with themselves--but in addition to feeling their way through their powers, a sorcerer is also channeling their inherent power into usable spells through their willpower. Expressing personal power is the domain of Charisma, which can be roughly summarizes as attractiveness (not just physical) + force of personality/force of will. This aspect of Charisma has been played down in 5e, so it's partially a legacy thing of earlier editions when the Sorcerer class was created.
Commanding Personality is listed last and is and optional measure of Charisma.
Force of personality is first, a defining characteristic of Charisma. It also specifies "actual strength of personality," whereas in 5e Charisma is more defined relative to others.

We all know what the stats are.

The illithid innate spellcasting (psionics) ability is Int.

I think Psionics can be any one of the three mental stats. In the 3e Psionics handbook I think that different contests would test different attributes too. Personally I've always associated will and willpower with Wisdom, Charisma in certain circumstances.

The question really should be why we're making a roll in the first place, unless it's a wisdom save against something else, otherwise it should be our target that makes the save.

I feel like we're making a 'to hit' roll of sorts, I suppose?

Or maybe a lockpick roll is a better comparison? I don't know.

*

I tried to look up the 5e mind flayer, and it appears to use Int. for its innate spellcasting (psionic) abilities.

In the MM if they're able to use any stat they'd use their highest. I'm assuming that's the case for Illithids.

But who knows

I think they did it this way because players would get upset that they have no control over using the Illithid Powers in terms of rolling the die. The target making a saving throw would mean the player has no control whatsoever other than to initiate the mental attack.

I do agree that making it a Wisdom check is weird. It also makes it so that those with higher Wisdom scores have an advantage with the Illithid Powers over those who focus on other abilities. Maybe that's intentional, but it makes it so that classes that don't focus on Wisdom are not as good with Illithid Powers as classes that do focus on it.

I think it should be a flat Proficiency check so all classes have an even playing field. Or... maybe make it like DOS 2's skill system. I Persuade with Finesse because my rogue is good at Finesse and Persuade. Meanwhile, my fighter persuades with Strength because he's good with Strength. In other words, the PC uses the ability they are best at in order to make the Illithid Powers roll, showing that each class channels the Illithid Powers in a different way.

?

why would the MM say they can use any stat?

the MM says what stat they do use. In this case, it's Int. Unless you're saying the MM says something other than what I'm saying? If so, please correct me. I don't have the MM in front of me.

If it is an illithid power then I think it should use the same ability that the illithids use for their powers.

Not because of my faith in the delicate balance of the 5e system, but because there's something to be said for consistency. You can't have one illithid using Int while another uses Str and a third relies on an acrobatics check.

What I meant is that the monster manual gives you a typical example of a monster, ready for you to plop into a game. It doesn't explain how psionics work outside of what might be expected during a combat encounter. I don't know if they've done psionics for 5e, but we have examples from past editions that allow psionic abilities to be used with multiple attributes. With that in mind, the typical Illithid will use their highest attribute with their psionics. It's the difference between a character ability and a monster ability, a monster Illithid will cleave to the MM, but a character or NPC Illithid built by the DM might work differently. Also because psionics isn't 'learned' by Illithids, as far as I know, it might work the same for all of that species.

looking around, there's actually a UA on psionics in 5e, so maybe if they end up fleshing it out more, there'll be a more robust way of determining it. I never cared too much about psionics, what I remember most about psionics contests in 3e was how much like rock paper scissors it was.

Why not? I mean, all the tadpole powers manifest differently. Fighter has the ability to pull a creature to them. Warlock teleports to an ally. Rogue creates darkness cloud. Wizard reflects. Cleric comes back to life. All different based on class.

These aren't the illithids you're used to. That's the whole point. Right?