Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Mega-threads and Guides Reactions like Solasta!

Popup or prompt are functionally the same in my mind tbf 😋 I just think a lot of people have negative connotations associated with the word 'popup', if they're old enough to have been around in the 90s/00s online, or noticed the GDPR popups on websites in later years.

I think a good portion of people who argue against the idea of popups isn't necessarily because they disagree with its purpose, but its intrusiveness. Or perceived intrusiveness. So just the word immediately instills like an irrational "mental lock". But instead having a gameplay mechanic that prompts the player with stuff to do, sounds far more edible and evades that immediate impression of something being intrusive and disrupting their game.

Same thing, different framing, basically.

So, I forget sometimes what spells are in PHB and which aren't. So, fine. Temporal Shunt and Silvery Barbs aren't in PHB and likely not in the game.

That's not the way the presets would work based on what I was suggesting with presets. Presets would be set up prior to combat. You'd access the Reactions screens and set up the conditions that would trigger the Reaction. You can tweak them during your character's turn, but for the most part they are set up by you NOT during combat. That's the whole point of presets.

So, for example, Uncanny Dodge would be activated outside of combat as a reaction you want your rogue to do. Let's say you want to set Uncanny Dodge to only trigger if an enemy does 15 damage to you. You set the value to 15. After all, why would you want to waste your reaction on an enemy who only does like 4 damage to you. You'd waste Uncanny Dodge by cutting 4 in half to 2.

For Counterspell, you set up the conditions outside of combat and activate it IF you want to use it in an upcoming battle. Or, like Passive Mode, you leave it active all the time because you always want to use it if you've prepared it. There would be a default list of spells that you would want to always counter that would trigger the reaction, and you could tweak the list to your specifications.

It would look something like this in the game:

Lae'zel, Astarion and Gale at Level 6 facing Nere and the duergar. Lots of potential spellcasters in the room. You had Counterspell activated on Gale because you like it. You also always have Astarion's Uncanny Dodge.

Round 1. Nere goes and casts Misty Step. He then casts Lightning Bolt. Counterspell automatically triggers - not on Misty Step because it's not on your preset Counterspell spell list - but on Lightning Bolt because it IS on the preset spell list. No prompts or nothing. The spell simply triggers and stops Nere from casting Lightning Bolt.

Nere was not expecting this and he tries to flee. He is in close range to Lae'zel, so he triggers AOO. No prompt. Lae'zel simply uses her Reaction to attack Nere. Why? Her preset for AOO is set to All Enemies, meaning any enemy who enters melee with her and tries to flee will trigger AOO.

But wait! You also set Lae'zel to use her Battlemaster Maneuver Menacing Attack coupled with her AOO. So, she not only hits Nere, she uses her Menacing Attack too.

Duergar's turn. She runs up to Astarion and hits him, dealing 14 damage. No Uncanny Dodge triggered. Thrinn goes next and runs up to Astarion, attacking him and dealing 25 damage. Uncanny Dodge is triggered because the preset was set to 15. So, Astarion automatically uses his Reaction and cuts the damage in half to 12.

And how long did it take me to set this up beforehand? I pulled up the Reaction screen for Astarion, activated Uncanny Dodge, set it to Damage > 15 and clicked Done. Then I went to Lae'zel. AOO is already set by default to All Enemies, so I just activated my Menacing Attack AOO and set it to Enemies with Current HP > 15 so that she'd only use it on enemies with more than 15 HP. Don't want to waste a Superiority Die on enemies with barely any HP.

Finally, Gale's Counterspell. Yeah, this would take a bit longer. I'd pull up his reactions and turn off AOO because I wouldn't want to waste his reaction on AOO. I then check the default list of spells for Counterspell and I uncheck those spells I don't want to trigger it, ensuring that only those spells I do want to trigger it are checked. Edit: keep in mind though that there is already a default list. You're just tweaking it. Maybe the list has Darkness on it and you think that would be a waste of a level 3 spell slot to counter it. You click and uncheck it. Done. It's only a little work if you don't like the default list.

So, it's a bit of work on Counterspell in advance, but it saves from stopping every time someone casts a spell.

Imagine if the above combat scenario happened where Nere wasn't first. It could very literally happen like this:

Duergar casts Shield of Faith. Prompt. Counterspell? You click No. Another duergar casts Enlarge. Prompt. Counterspell? No. A duergar hits Astarion and does 4 damage. Prompt. Uncanny Dodge? You click no. Thrinn hits Astarion. She does 25 damage. Prompt. Uncanny Dodge? Yes. Duergar casts Enlarge. Prompt. Counterspell? No. Mindmaster casts domination spell. Prompt.
Counterspell? Ponder a bit. Should you? It's a pretty serious spell.
You finally decide. You're saving it for Nere. No. Nere casts Misty Step. Prompt. Counterspell? No. Nere casts Lightning Bolt. Prompt. Counterspell? Yes. Nere triggers Lae'zel's AOO. Prompt. Use AOO with Maneuver? Pick Maneuver.

This is a very real potential. Is it not?

Just so everyone knows, I've played Solasta. I love it a lot. Not as much as BG3, but it's a great game. Typically, the popups aren't that bad. However, there are times it can get annoying, such as with Smite and Uncanny Dodge and Counterspell. Not super annoying, but annoying nonetheless.

But, for most other reactions, and such, it really isn't an issue. A prompt like Composer posted would be a HUGE improvement to the Solasta style reactions.

Okay, that's better than the system I was considering "preset," and I suppose I should add that to my list of reaction systems. "Pre-combat DAO-like Reaction Tactics." However, this is still a lot of things to keep track of. I can very much see new players getting immediately overwhelmed when presented with so many options. Ironically, Counterspell is probably one of the easiest abilities to preset, because you'd almost always want to counterspell ANY enemy spell of level 3+, and do that over any other reaction.

I still don't particularly like the fact that you have to choose which reactions are "On" during your turn, but having criteria on them would mitigate that somewhat.

Having a default list would certainly help. If implemented, you should be able to toggle individual spells AND toggle all spells of the same level.

It is a real potential, but the likelihood of a turn being that terrible is really small. Like, this is an exaggeratedly large amount of enemy spellcasters that go in the exact order and make the exact wrong spell decisions such that you wouldn't counterspell until the last enemy's turn. It's also ignoring other reactions, like if an enemy attacks your mage on the 1st or 2nd turn, you may cast shield which would use your reaction earlier.

I'm starting to think that there really isn't an elegant way to just rework reactions. All the alternatives I've seen seem to be just overcomplicated. The preset idea in particular feels like a lot to ask a new player to manage, and they would have to start managing it right from the begining and keep fiddling with it as they level up and gain more abilities. It's just frontloading a lot of stuff. I doubt I'd be able to adequately manage all of that honestly, and I have a lot of experience with crpgs. Someone new to the genre, or even someone who just has less experience could easily get overwhelmed. But maybe I'm not the best person to be commenting on this issue. I've never had a problem with Solasta reactions and I don't think they need to be changed at all, so all this stuff just feels more like reinventing the wheel, but with corners.

It SEEMS complicated, but I worked it out and it's not as bad as you think.

Clerics pretty much have 1 Reaction. AOO. Default is set to All Enemies, so unless you are an experienced player, you'll probably leave it as All Enemies. But the options I came up with are pretty simple and easy to manage even if you wanted to mess with them.

Druid is similar, but they might have Absorb Elements (Can't remember if that's in PHB or not. I don't have it in front of me.). That's also easy. Default is all element damage types. But you can easily go in and deactivate the types you don't want to trigger. Say you already have fire resistance. Deselect that from the trigger list.

Rogue. AOO. You don't get Uncanny Dodge until level 5, I believe, and even then. It's easy to manage. Default is All Enemies, but you can go in and set it to a specific damage amount.

These aren't hard or time consuming.

I still think that the basic AoO is the least of the problems with reactions, by the way. They don't trigger that often to begin with and in most scenarios I'd be almost fine with what we have now...
At least until you pull a "Larian" a rub salt on the wound with a Grymforge golem boss that you have to kite in a specific directions and where a misplaced AoO becomes actively disruptive to the execution of your game plan.

Things that use resources (counterspell, shield, rebuke, etc) are a far bigger problem, because a waste/misuse in that case is far more annoying to the player.

Anyway, I get that you all want to feel useful and come up with your own (convoluted) design solution but I'm fairly adamant about it: anything else that getting an option to confirm/pass on a case-by-case basis will be a failure to me.

It seems to me that there's a disproportionate amount of effort going on to circumvent a problem that doesn't even exist.
It's like witnessing a bunch of people putting together a plan to dig a complex network of tunnels under the sewers so they can leave a building that had all the doors open the entire time.

Convoluted? lol. That's hilarious. How is this convoluted?:

Shadowheart. Only Reaction is AOO. Set by default to All Enemies. Will I ever change this? Probably not. I just leave it active all the time. IF I change it, it might be to select certain targets because I don't want it to target grunts when I'm fighting a boss... maybe.

Astarion. Only Reaction is AOO until he reaches level 5 and gets Uncanny Dodge. Then I might maybe go in to my Reactions and tweak Uncanny Dodge so it doesn't just trigger on any dumb enemy but maybe only triggers on someone's attack who deals 10ish damage or more. I open the Reactions screen. I click on a button to switch it to Damage > X, and I put in a number. Done. Now Uncanny Dodge will only trigger if an enemy does more than whatever I want it to.

Druid. Only Reaction is AOO unless I learn the Absorb Elements spell. The default for that spell is All Types, which are Acid, cold fire lightning and thunder. If I'm a tiefling and therefore fire resistant, I might click a button and switch it to Selected Types and deselect fire. Again, how is this convoluted?

Fighter. Only Reaction is AOO until they learn maneuvers or reaction spells. If maneuvers, they are, by default, not selected as Reactions. IF you want to couple one of your maneuvers to AOO, you can go into the Reaction screen, pick a maneuver and activate it as a Reaction, and now it'll trigger when your fighter AOOs unless you disable it - which you can do during combat even during your character's turn.

Paladin. Only Reaction is AOO. When you learn Smite, default is to not couple it with AOO. But, if you want it to be activated on AOO, go to the Reaction screen, activate it and select your preset option. All Enemies? Enemy Current HP > X? Whichever you like. IF you want to.

Wizard. Only Reaction is AOO until you learn a spell that is a reaction, like Shield. IF you learn the spell, the default is to activate Shield whenever an enemy hits you, but only IF the enemy will miss with the +5 AC bonus that Shield gives (and, of course, if Magic Missile targets you). This is by default, so the newby player doesn't have to do anything. But, if they DO want to do something, open the Reaction menu and switch the preset from All Enemies to Magic Missile Only OR a preset option where the user, again, can easily set a value to determine the trigger.

None of these is super complicated or convoluted. It's no harder than the original BG and IWD games where you set your character's basic combat script. If anything, it's WAY simpler and easier to understand.

Because any system where you have to set up conditionals in a "IF THEN ELSE" manner is intrinsically convoluted.
Because you'll have to sit there predicting fringe cases, adapting the script to it, and then learn during the execution of all these other cases your script didn't properly cover.
Any adjustment on the fly will take time, and still none of them will offer you the full granularity of control offered by a properly REACTIVE system.

Don't take it so personally. I'm not saying that the system you put so much effort into is necessarily poor for what is attempting to do. I'm telling you that what it's attempting to do is NOT a desirable result for me.
You are offering me an alternative that in so many ways feel WAY worse than the problem it's supposed to address.

P.S.
Ha. Never. AI disabled and full manual control all the time was always the way to go.

I did it in Dragon's Age, tho, and holy shit if after a while didn't get boring when the party was basically playing by itself and the same strategy worked with pretty much anything.

Bruh. How is it not convoluted? Enemy Current HP > X. First of all, it's not even clear if we'll have the enemy hp visible to us at all difficulty levels. Secondly, it depends on the enemy. If a dragon has 15 hp remaining, I'd spent my spell slot for Smite, if it's a goblin with those same 15 hp, I would not. It has to be a VERY complicated and convoluted if-else system to be at least somehow close to what actual reactions can provide. Or let's take Counterspell. You expect a new player (or any player for that matter) to go through 400+ spells to tune the reaction? And what if in some cases I would want to counter Shield and not in others? Reload the combat and tune the preaction beforehand? Nah.

It can't be a huge improvement because they are functionally the same thing just with different graphical coating.

+

To be fair, such an implementation wouldn't *have* to be that complicated. The criteria for Smite could solely be based on HP, and not care about enemy type or CR or anything else. There's some middle ground balance where the combination of "ease of use/simplicity" and "control over reactions" is highest.

For Counterspell, you don't get that until level 5 so a player will already be a bit familiar with the spells in game, and you also essentially will only have to care about levels 1-4 spells at that time, not ALL spells in the game. If the default Counterspell options activated on all level 2+ spells and no spells below level 2, then a person could go on a case by case basis throughout the game. "Oh, I counterspelled that? Hmmm that doesn't seem worth it; let me turn that 1 specific spell off." or "Oh, wow that's [Bless] a power 1st level spell; let me add that to my Counterspell list."

I still think it is too complicated for this type of game and doesn't provide enough control, but it doesn't need to be extreme "you can tune every possible condition you can think of" to be more functional than the current BG3 reaction system. (I prefer prompts > overhauled reactions appropriate for lack of prompts > preset reaction tactics).

Wow. I feel like I'm having to defend something that I'm just open to testing and trying if Larian wanted to do it. I'm saying it COULD be done and done fairly well, and it might even be the better option. Maybe.

I REALLY think you guys are thinking this is super complicated or that it wouldn't work to manage Reactions - without even being willing to try it or test it.

How is this hard or complicated or time consuming?

Reaction Screen
AOO Button. On/Off. If On, it means that whenever an enemy tries to leave melee without Disengage, any enemy at all, you do AOO automatically. As an alternative, there's a single option. Selected Target(s). This makes it so that IF, during combat, you want to only have AOO trigger against certain enemies, you can select them so that you don't waste your AOO on potentially unimportant enemies.

So, 3 options. On, Off and Selected Target(s). Not super complicated here. Not hard for new players to figure out. Wouldn't take much to manage even IF you wanted to only trigger AOO on like, let's say, the Matriarch instead of the Phase Spiders or the babies.

That right there handles MOST reactions for MOST classes. No popups/prompts needed, and the result is 99% the same every time. Why? Because AOO doesn't trigger that often, and when it does, you usually want it to be on the first enemy that actually triggers it. Right?

And Uncanny Dodge. Again. Not complicated. Super easy. When you get it at level 5, it is set to All Enemies. So, the first enemy that attacks your Rogue would trigger it unless you say, "Hey. I don't want it to just trigger on the first enemy. I'd like it to be worth more than that. I'm only going to have it trigger if an enemy does more than X amount of damage. Again. How hard is it to switch it from All Enemies to Damage > X? And when would you want Uncanny Dodge to trigger other than one of these two? Maybe selected targets? Again... I was suggesting the option to even be able to do that. It's not like it'd take players whole minutes to set this. We're talking very easy, minor setups.

And Shield. When would you want Shield to be cast? If an enemy hits you with a weapon by 5 or less or they cast Magic Missile. Again, easily preset so you don't have to worry about prompts every time an enemy hits you or casts Magic Missile.
When would you cast Shield? Enemy 1 runs up and attacks you and hits by 4. Wouldn't you cast Shield to block it? Most likely. So why not automate it? Don't want Shield to be used as your Reaction? Click. Reactions pull up. Click. It's turned off. Want it to only cast on Magic Missile? Click. Reactions pull up. Click. Magic Missile Only preset. Want it to cast if the enemy's potential damage is more than 10? Click. Reactions pull up. Click. Max Damage Potential > X. Enter 10. Done.

But again, there are defaults that can be set so that new players don't necessarily need to know all the nuances of the preset system. Even a Counterspell spell list would handle most scenarios where players would want to cast a spell.

Note: I tried a blanket preset idea for Counterspell, but it doesn't work with blanket presets (such as spell level and above). You can't just set Counterspell to trigger against all 3rd level spells or higher because someone could cast something like Beacon of Hope, and it would trigger your Counterspell, knocking out your Reaction so you couldn't cast it against something like Fireball or Lightning Bolt. But, again, that's why the Default Spell List would exist. On the Spell List, there would be the most common spells that players would want to use Counterspell for. So, you'd have spells like Fireball and Lightning Bolt on the list, but you wouldn't have spells like Misty Step or Barkskin or Beacon of Hope or Healing Word checkmarked.

I was even thinking that a blending of the prompt and presets would be perhaps the best approach. You have presets that cut out a good portion of the prompts, but then if a preset is triggered, a prompt appears asking you to confirm. Example: Counterspell is set to trigger on Darkness, Fireball, Lightning Bolt, Dominate Person... Enemy casts Darkness. Prompt. Let's say you reject. Enemy 2 casts Barkskin. Doesn't trigger Counterspell Prompt because it's not on the list. Enemy 3 casts Misty Step. Doesn't trigger prompt because not on list. Enemy 4 casts Fireball. Prompt. You accept.

This would DRASTICALLY cut down on the number of times Counterspell would prompt you.

I'm just saying. It COULD work, and it COULD work fairly well for most Reaction - I would think, at least. I'd at least be willing to test it.

Since (as you proposed) you only can switch the selected targets during the character's turn, this system already does not provide the accuracy of proper reactions. Examples with combat situations were provided in this very thread. What's to test here? Yes, the game could compile and run with this system. Would it be good? Not for me. Do I have to try it to be sure? No, I don't.

>This would DRASTICALLY cut down on the number of times Counterspell would prompt you.
I like when counterspell prompts me. I like to think whether I should use it in this particular situation or save the spell slot. To feel the power to influence the combat.

Btw, taking it a bit further, why not make ACTIONS presetted? Fighter runs and attacks (preset for meelee/ranged/mages/boss enemies). Character uses thas potion when they're < 15 hp, that potion when they're < 30 hp. With right presets you don't even have to play the game!

Yep, this is pretty much what I mean when I talk about "trying to solve a problem that never existed".

You* are going out of your way to deprive me of something I like (REACTING to things that happen) by giving me as an alternative something that I would not enjoy doing (speculating ahead and setting up a script based on predictions).
Thanks, I guess..?


* NOTE: with "you" I mean whoever suggests an alternate system, not talking about anyone in particular.

I think a key point of alternate suggestions is that almost any reaction system is better than BG3's current implementation of reactions. So if Larian, for whatever reason, *won't* implement prompts for reactions, then they still need to do something to improve the system.

For the record, I consider prompts for most reactions (probably not for abilities that would activate too frequently. E.g., Smite and Cutting Words) to be the overwhelmingly superior option.

Counterspell, although it *could* trigger very frequently, is powerful enough that a prompt would be worth it imo. After all, it uses a 3rd level spell slot AND has the potential to negate a very-important enemy action; I definitely want full control over it's use.

I don't totally disagree. However, some scripting would be good.

Or are you all saying that every time an enemy mage casts Fire Bolt you want Counterspell to trigger a prompt? Or Burning Hands? Or Hex? Or Barkskin? Or Enlarge? Or Grease? Or Fog? Or Mage Armor?

I'm just saying, there are a TON of spells, and Counterspell doesn't just interrupt Arcane. It counters ALL spells.

I don't know. It just seems like SOME sort of automation could seriously cut down on combat interruptions.

A bit extreme. Presets for EVERYTHING is a HUGE leap from a few presets for a few reactions.

Rogue has 2 reactions. Cleric and druid have 1. Druid maybe 2 with Absorb Elements. Fighter maybe 2. Paladin maybe a few with Smite. Like 5 tops for ALL levels of Smite. Wizard maybe 3 with Shield and Counterspell. This is hardly anything.

Now let's play prompt frequency. Rogue gets attacked by 2 goblins and Ragzlin. Rogue is promoted 3 times because all 3 hit, but he saves it for Ragzlin. Could be easily done away with by a preset. Goblins do 10 max. Set preset to 11 or more damage from enemy triggers Uncanny Dodge.

Wizards cast petty low level spells you DON'T want to counter. There are 3 of them. 3 prompts that turn.

It's not extreme. It could easily happen in this game. Shoot. There are 4 spellcaster in the Dank Crypt. Do you think Larian isn't going to do something like that again?

How would I know that the upcoming battle includes weak enemies who would do exactly 10 damage to my rogue max as well as a stronger enemy? Also, what if the rogue has 6 hp left and a goblin strikes him? What if the boss of the group goes first, does nothing to my rogue, and then some weaker goblin deals damage - I'd like to be able to lower it as dnd5e reaction system allows.

1) Even low spells can be worth countering, depends on the situation. And as I don't know the situation ahead, I want to be able to REACT to it with my counterspell.
2) Good. I like prompts. I like having controll.

You set the preset to what you prefer. So, for Uncanny Dodge, you say to yourself before a battle starts, "When would I prefer my rogue to use Uncanny Dodge? Would I want him to waste his reaction on something like 5 damage to reduce it to 2? Or would I rather have him use his reaction for Uncanny Dodge only if the damage done to him is actually worth something?" So, what's worth it to you? That's the concept. You set it for something like 10 so that if an enemy does MORE than 10 - not EXACTLY 10 - it'll automatically trigger the reaction. 10 or less, why bother? Right? I mean, even 10 damage is only 5 if you use Uncanny Dodge. That's nothing compared to the 40 the Matriarch can take off. THAT'S who you want to save it for.

I look at the presets like someone animating a cartoon like they used to when cartoons first came out as opposed to animating them like they do with computers today. You can either take the long road to slowly draw each page one page at a time, or you can use a computer to speed up the process tremendously. You're still going to get roughly the same result. It's just one method is quicker. Sure, the old method produces some beautiful works of art, while the new method is a bit more cookie cutter. However, you still get roughly the same result MUCH faster.

Think of it like this. Phase spider attacks your rogue. He does 20 damage. Prompt appears. You click Yes. Why? Because he did significant damage and it's worth using his reaction. Same exact result as the preset except that the preset made it so I wouldn't have to pause combat for a few seconds and click Yes. I took a few seconds to set my preset when I first got Uncanny Dodge, and it just takes care of it for me. Any time any enemy does more than 10 damage, the reaction triggers. And that's how I'd probably do it anyway. I wouldn't want to waste his reaction on 10 damage or less. I'd probably want to save that for AOO. And there would be more than 1 preset so you can set it to your preference.

And again, I'm not even saying that it has to be ALL prompts or ALL presets. Maybe a blending of the two would be best. Some presets cut out some needless reaction prompts. AOO is the primary reaction, and it could easily be managed with presets. All Enemies, Selected Enemies, Enemies with Current HP > X... whatever. You don't need prompts for AOO. Most of the time you're going to want to take that swing at your enemy who is leaving melee without disengaging.

And again, Counterspell. By the Nine! I absolutely do not want them to implement that with a popup every time a spellcaster casts any kind of spell. Gods! Imagine the Grove Battle against the Shadow Druids. Kagha casts a spell. Counterspell? Olodan casts a spell. Counterspell? Shadow Druid 1 casts a spell. Counterspell? And most of them are things like Barkskin or whatever. I think you guys aren't thinking about how many actual spellcasters there are in BG3. There are a lot of them, and it's just EA. Counterspell, again, works on ALL spells including druids and clerics and bards and such and including scrolls. It'd be a lot more prompts than you think. At least have some presets to cut out spells that YOU, the player, would think aren't necessary to prompt - like Fire Bolt and Minor Illusion and Healing Word. Remember, YOU would decide the spell list. So, if you think Fire Bolt is something you'd actually want to count - maybe because there's a barrel of explosive powder in the room you're entering - then fine. Enable it so it prompts you. But don't make it so that every single spell including cantrips that is ever cast will prompt you in this game. That really is going to be bad.