Originally Posted by mrfuji3
Originally Posted by robertthebard
Just like with shove, I can't count the number of times I've used Sleep on one hand, because 0 requires no counting. There are other reasons I would opt to not use Sleep over say Magic Missile, or Flaming Bolt. Why CC it if I can simply kill it instead? It achieves the same end, removing that mob from combat, with 0 risk of a party member, or another mob, breaking the CC. IF we want NPCs using the same rules as PCs, then some of this is to be expected, yes?
I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say; what is the "this" in your last sentence? I do want NPCs to use the same rules, but in my mind that means neither of us should be able to wake allies up with a bonus action. Or sleep should be buffed to account for this ease of waking up.

For Sleep, the reason why you'd use it over an attack is because you *should* be able to automatically sleep 3-4 low-level enemies, whereas damaging attacks/low-level spells typically only target one creature (and might not even kill it!). Up against 10 goblins, sleeping 3 or 4 of them is much more valuable than killing a single one, as it either removes 3 enemies from combat for 1 minute, or makes 3 goblins waste their attacks to wake up their allies.

However, in BG3, Sleep will probably only affect 1-2 creatures, and they can very easily be woken up via enemy bonus actions. So I agree that in BG3 it's almost always better to use any other ability, which is a problem.

...and using it as an AoE will not result in the scenario that you argued in your previous post, one mob will not be shoving one mob, and waking up all of the sleeping mobs. However, that doesn't address my point, that I wouldn't be using sleep over other options. "This" refers to NPCs using the same tactics/rules as the PC. So you hit it on the head, despite not understanding what I said? My issue, however, is that CC can be broken, whether through an action, or a bonus action is irrelevant. I will always opt to kill before I resort to CC. As I said, there are other reasons to use something else instead. This can include things like bombs, or as I listed, other spells, some of which may break the CC anyway. The fact that an NPC can break it doesn't factor into the equation for me.