Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General Poll: Are you playing BG3 the way you wish it could be played?

Being clueless is not an endorsement to a poor design decision.

Hey, Candy Crush is objectively the best game EVER, millions of people play it every day, it's gotta be.

It would be foolish to argue that Candy Crush is objectively bad.

I'm fine with folks who don't like shove as a bonus action. I'm okay with someone having an opinion.

It's when that person tries to force feed their opinion as objective fact that I start to get amused.

"Goodness, it must be objectively true. After all, there are ***pages*** of the same people arguing it over and over again." <--I can't be the only one who finds this funny.

It would STILL be bad even if NO ONE was agreeing with it because when you are a system-driven player you tend to notice the patterns of how systems interact with each other, what effect they have on each other and draw conclusions from there.

You know, rather than jumping in mouth-drooling and screaming "OH BOY I'M DOING THESE STOOPID THINGS I CAN DO, LOOK HOW MUCH FUN I'M HAVING!".

Wearing clown outfits and throwing cakes at each other may even be a riot in some context, but it's surely not the flavor I'd chase in a fantasy-themed tactical combat.

Say. Just curious. What's your source? How do you know thousands of folks are thoroughly enjoying the Shove mechanics? I see Shove posts on EVERY forum detailing how frustrated players are with the mechanics. From the evidence I see, and the fact that shove keeps getting brought up by lots of different people on this forum, seems people aren't real happy with it.

It's brought up constantly even OUT of this forum, as are reactions and "barrelmancy" (even if this admittedly became less and less of an issue over time). For context I've seen plenty of conversations elsewhere (like on a popular italian gaming forum I've been following for almost 20 years) where *I* was the most positive voice about this game in the entire discussion.

The naysayer argument in these cases is usually something that boils down to "If you let few casual players who don't really understand balance and mechanics fool around with the game on a superficial level for few hours, chances are they won't notice things that are wrong!".

Which is at the same time mostly true AND hilariously misguided, because that's not a solid foundation to build your systems over.
In the same way you don't put together a proper design document for a game while asking a bunch of random people "What would you like to throw into the mix for this one?".

Incidentally that's terribly close to what actually happened with the Armor System in DOS 2: "We tried it at PAX and people understood quickly how it worked and thought it was fun!".
Except these people didn't stick with the game for dozens of hours, enough time to see all the (nefarious) implications that system had on the encounter design of the game, while users on this forum did and talked about for months, while being ignored and dismissed.

Something that even Larian had to admit in a post-mortem, almost two years after releasing the game.

About shove, Jandk remind me the "backstab and highground advantage is GREAT" crowd.
A crowd that NEVER complaint after patch 5 😅

Are you making a point that you prefer complainers? To each their own, I suppose.

No, I'm making a point that some players argue for the sake of arguing and don't care what they were arguing about anymore after it's changed.
Probably just like you when they'll finally make shove a full action

I'm mostly sure some of these players also agree that changes in patch 5 were good, finally.

Maybe they preferred it the other way, but aren't the type of people to go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on about their complaints, saying the same thing in walls of mind-numbing text over endless posts, insisting everybody else but them is an idiot? Is that a possibility, you think?

They were already saying the same thing in wall of mind-numbing text over endless posts again and again and again.
Just as you are. Maybe they just give up

Whatever, I'm out.
Shove has to change for the sake of BG3's combat gameplay quality. Larian cannot be blind to this even if they havent changed it yet.

They surely love bitching and moaning in a not-very-subtle way about what others prefer and care for, on the other hand.

Also, imagine being nostalgic of "jump as a free disengage" or "walk-hug around enemies to backstab them". Impressive standards of game design to live up to.

There may be different reasons for that ...

Maybe they just accepted that Larian made their mind ... or in other words dont believe that if they will be whining long enough, world start spinning around them?

I mean, i defininetly will download Action-Shove mod the second it will come out ... aswell as Pop-up reactions mod ... Githyanki patrol regular stats mod ... and if there will be someone so bold and skilled, starting equipment mod ...
But after two years, i also dont see much reasons in keep repeating the same.

Yes, maybe the 2 or 3 Jandk that were arguing against dozens of people gave up when Larian finally showed that they were aware of the gameplay ISSUES they created.

They clearly didn't when they listened to the feedback and changed things.

So maybe complaining repeatedly about shitty design decisions is demonstrably for the better, in the end?

And incidentally, guess what? If the message was well received WAY before (and additional complaints on the same topic weren't needed) all Larian had to do to stop them was to come out and say it.
NO SHIT people will keep pointing the same problems in a game during a prolonged alpha testing, as long as these will go ignored and unaddressed.

Yeah, you're right. They probably moved on. I imagine it takes a *special* kind of person to keep throwing a fit for two years straight.

Imagine what type of marvelous individuals it takes to hang around only to throw petty passive-aggressive and poorly-disguised insults at these persons, on the other hand.

Dude. Why? Just why?

Can't we keep things friendly and FUN? It's a GAME! Do you have to constantly insult people just because they don't agree with you?

Shove sucks. Many are saying it over and over again because it sucks. If it didn't suck, people STILL wouldn't be saying it. They'd have given up on it by now, but people are still saying it because they care about the game and want to see it changed.

The squeaky wheel gets the kick. If people stop saying shove sucks, Larian will forget about it and not change it. So here we are, still complaining about it because if we don't there's no hope it'll be changed.

But you call us *special*. Nice.

I don't think shove sucks.

I don't want Larian to change the way shove works.

If the squeaky wheel gets the grease, as you say, then I want to make sure there's some squeak going on for the crowd that thoroughly enjoys the way the bonus action works right now.

And, in fairness, I can't count the number of times I've been told by people that what I think is childish, dumb, empirically wrong, etc.

As I've mentioned before, I'm okay with someone having a different opinion, but when those opinions start getting thrown around like they're objective facts, it's worth pushing back a little.

But how that's done can (often) be done better. Not with vitreal and snark that is sure-fire to turn a conversation sour. So please stop that, I only tend to ask once, then timed suspensions follow if words don't work out. It's possible to disagree without going sour - Lead by example.

In this case I'm referring to: