I don't want to figure out how to have fun. I want to figure out how to win; I expect the game's designers to make the most effective way to win also the most fun way to play.
Yes, that's what I thought is generally accepted as good design. One can pick up two sticks and find a way to have fun with them. It doesn't make them a well designed game.
What about the people that are having fun playing now? Well, I'll tell you how that very subjective point is approached on these forums:
thousands of folks playing and thoroughly enjoying the game. if only they knew they weren't having fun because of shove. sad. .
Being clueless is not an endorsement to a poor design decision.
So, the takeaway is what, that they're too stupid to have fun? Oh, I know, "but Rob, you're missing context", or "you're unable to grasp..." Hey, all of that comes back to the same thing, doesn't it??? It's amazing, isn't it?
Here's a thought: Maybe they're actually enjoying themselves because they're not looking for 5e purism? Maybe a version number has no impact at all on why they bought the game? So, because others are laser focused on that aspect alone, everyone else is invalid? Why isn't it that anyone that's laser focused on rules is "too stupid to have fun, because the game's supposed to be about RP"? That's not my position, but a version number had nothing to do with why I bought the game.
Oh, the second quote in this thread is Copy/Pasted, because I don't want anyone editing out my context.
There are way too many ways to approach what's "fun". Some people are going to be rules lawyers, there's a lot of that on these forums. Others are going to be purely in it for the RP, there are some vids of that on YouTube. Some are going to be more interested in the story. Some people are going to be going for Min/Maxing to the nth degree, I'll likely be one of those, once I start getting into MP. There's a system that should drive the rules lawyers up the wall, since the whole idea is to bend the rules as much as possible to achieve a specific build. I know that they weren't exactly popular at TT sessions, and my RP group in NWN forbade Min/Maxing.
You know, now that I'm thinking about this, I suspect that I know exactly what's going on here: Rule Lawyer Paradise.
