And DnD have several editions. And homebrewed DnD is still a DnD.
Sure, but BG3 is supposedly based on the latest edition, 5e. While I don't necessarily oppose taking rules from past editions or making homebrew rules (e.g., a bigger diversity in weapons, feats along with ASIs, free feat at level 1, BA potions [of healing], etc), each homebrew rule still should be a good modification of the system. It should work with the general 5e system, not overshadow existing good mechanics, actually improve some previously meh-or-negative aspect of 5e, etc.
Removing the concentration limit would be an example of homebrew/using rules from past D&D editions, and is technically allowed without changing the game away from D&D. But wow would that drastically affect the balance of 5e and widen the power disparity between casters and martials, and generally be an all-around terrible idea (unless I guess you told all your players to play casters. But good luck balancing combats for such a party...)
Yeah I am not even against the action-shove change in fact, as I've already written in that thread, it just seemed to me that you put a high emphasis on copying 5e "because it is perfect" and that adding some new decisions is like inventing a bicycle - a thing that I saw quite often while initially browsing the forums. But your vision seems to be rather deliberate so sorry that I took it as the aforementioned nonsense.
Potentially this is a thing that can't be simply fixed by options in settings though, since Larian makes use of a learning AI to govern enemy behavior.
If the default game-mode has SuperShove, the AI will (and clearly has) learn strategies that depend on it. So if Shove is changed to an action, reduced in distance, etc, then that might break the AI behavior. E.g., the AI could default to using Action-Shove to no effect.
Since you mention this tangent, I have to say that I've been made vaguely curious by this. Let's say right now Larian changes Shove to an action without any other additional change. OR a modder does (there are already few mod that force this change now)... What happens with the AI? It maintains the same exact "learned behavior" but wastes an attack to shove just as frequently? Or does "weight" the modified shove as an action, decides it's less appealing that it used to be (outside of specific circumstances) and makes a different decision?
Basically I guess you could summarize the question as "To what degree is the AI based on calculating on the spot and to what gets the best result and to what degree it just acquires a learned behavior running thousands of simulations over time?"
Ideally, Larian trains the AI for each different rule set they will include in the game. Then we will have smart AI for BA shove and action shove.
In case of modding, then most likely AI will act as if it spend its shove action already. It is going to be very difficult for AI to assess the situation where shove is an action and competes with other actions (if Larian does not prepare the AI for this scenario and modders change shove to action). Probably AI won't use shove at all or use it as if it is BA and waste its action doing so.
If the default game-mode has SuperShove, the AI will (and clearly has) learn strategies that depend on it.
That alone is quite asumption ... I mean, maybe Larian is using some advanced coding to confuse us, but dont programs usualy do prior tasks first? O_o
Originally Posted by mrfuji3
So if Shove is changed to an action, reduced in distance, etc, then that might break the AI behavior.
Disturbt ... maybe. Break seems like quite stong word.
Originally Posted by mrfuji3
E.g., the AI could default to using Action-Shove to no effect.
What exactly do you mean "no effect" ? Like if Larian would reduce shove range to strict 5f, but NPCs AI would still presume that they will shove you thrice as far and act acordingly to that presumption? Well then yes, but that would be hardly misstake of AI, would it?
Otherwise i must disagree ... I was never shoved so much as many people claim around here, but if there is one thing im quite certain about, it was allways with intention to kill ... therefore i would presume that AI that would see that by Shove it cant kill your Avatar instantly, would rather attack regulary.
I still dont understand why cant we change Race for our hirelings. Lets us play Githyanki as racist as they trully are!
Red = the area from which you can be OS. Green = bottomless pit. I included the spider pit in "bottomless"/OS because it mostly mean that one character is out of combat (except if it's a character that already have misty step + spellslot) Blue = the safe zone
This combat mostly rely on metagaming and is only "rewarding" (or at least not penalizing too much) a single strategy : attack them from behind / from the stairs. I want to be able to rush into them with melee characters and fight arround the throne. I don't want to be OS before knowing that I should stay so far away from holes. What is a bad position should be mostly obvious (this is visible holes, not hidden traps) at the first glance, not after you've lost a character.
This is the kind of expected dangerous zone most players will have in mind when they're gonna see holes. And to my own surprise... this is the danger zone for SHOVE. If you're a bit further your character won't fall into the pits if they're shoved by a 18 str character. Shove distance doesn't seem so broken here in the end (Dror probably has more str than my Lae'zel though)
Since we are already dealing with these ridiculous shoves at low levels, how's a Larian fight against a huge creature, a dragon or a giant going to be like? There's nowhere left to go except yeeting PC's off-screen.
And talk about an anti-climax: after Nere's Darth Vader scene where he force-murders his minions, I just casually pushed him into lava with whichever PC's turn came first, I don't even remember.
I just don't get it. Why are they sabotaging their own otherwise great game with stupid nonsense slapstick gameplay like this?
Just finished the arcane tower for the first time. Expected an epic fight at the end. Nearly got it. If it wasn't for the fact archers should get renamed to pushers. I swear to god. They fired 2 arrows. Other than that they did all in their power to try to push my characters of the map. And it's not like there's a tone of place to get my mages in a safe place considering the quite wide AOE from the boss( The AOE looks dope though, ngl ^^).
Idk, Shove seems a bit too present and easy to use considering how powerful it is ( insta death in most cases). Arcane tower is the only fight where I literally had a shove fest instead of an actual fight.
The goblin camp fight described by Maximuus I imagined they would try to push me in that pit so ended up spending the entire fight in that blue area near the stairs.
Alt+ left click in the inventory on an item while the camp stash is opened transfers the item there. Make it a reality.
Just finished the arcane tower for the first time. Expected an epic fight at the end. Nearly got it. If it wasn't for the fact archers should get renamed to pushers. I swear to god. They fired 2 arrows. Other than that they did all in their power to try to push my characters of the map. And it's not like there's a tone of place to get my mages in a safe place considering the quite wide AOE from the boss( The AOE looks dope though, ngl ^^).
Idk, Shove seems a bit too present and easy to use considering how powerful it is ( insta death in most cases). Arcane tower is the only fight where I literally had a shove fest instead of an actual fight.
The goblin camp fight described by Maximuus I imagined they would try to push me in that pit so ended up spending the entire fight in that blue area near the stairs.
How do you even activate the magical lift? I couldn't get it to work when I was there.
Just finished the arcane tower for the first time. Expected an epic fight at the end. Nearly got it. If it wasn't for the fact archers should get renamed to pushers. I swear to god. They fired 2 arrows. Other than that they did all in their power to try to push my characters of the map. And it's not like there's a tone of place to get my mages in a safe place considering the quite wide AOE from the boss( The AOE looks dope though, ngl ^^).
Idk, Shove seems a bit too present and easy to use considering how powerful it is ( insta death in most cases). Arcane tower is the only fight where I literally had a shove fest instead of an actual fight.
The goblin camp fight described by Maximuus I imagined they would try to push me in that pit so ended up spending the entire fight in that blue area near the stairs.
How do you even activate the magical lift? I couldn't get it to work when I was there.
You need to …
1. Get into the bottom floor somehow, e.g. by jumping down the mushrooms on one outside wall of the tower and lockpicking the garden entrance, though there are other ways. 2. Combine a sussur bloom from the garden with the elevator mechanism in that room, then go up a floor to use the lift.
PS I agree the use of push by enemies in the fight on the top floor of the arcane tower is a particularly infuriating example of an already frustrating feature.
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