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Originally Posted by Shlamorel
But I just did this fight the other day and had such a different experience that I am dumbfounded.


So first, Any character I have on the rafters I keep distance between them and him. I also use grease, ice, etc to keep him away and make him slip. I dont do this because I think the shove here is over represented, I do it because the rafters feel like a high risk high reward area to fight, so i choose to be very tactical and slow about fighting in places where i can get shoved into very bad spots.

Second, I pushed three enemies into the spider pit where they were gobbled up by spiders, and not once did i get shoved.

Third, any character vulnerable to shove (melee for example) i used on the ground to fight enemies. Range played on rafters.

Fourth, Shove is 100% success from an invis enemy - so I use githyanki mage hand which is invis to shove people off. You can also use mage hands between you and enemies with a narrow path so that they have to kill it to get to you.
That sound like a very cool an varied encounter. I do feel it is your creativity shining through rather then result of the game design. Really, getting shoved down is the only dangerous thing that can happen. Line up against the wall, or up the stairs, spend some resources and the battle is won. Enemies are easy to hit so +2 from high ground isn’t that beneficial.

I feel it is where, at least for me, 4 player party might be an issue - with only that many players there isn’t really space for support class. Conjuring mage hand to block a passage seems like a waste of time if I can kill an enemy in the same move, same with casting Crowd control spells. Doing fancy strategies feel like prolonging the fight, rather then fighting smartly.

Of course, there are also the abysmal push arrows, but I am not sure if they are present in that encounter.

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Originally Posted by Ragitsu
When push comes to shove...

...oh, who am I kidding: it was always shove!

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Originally Posted by The_Red_Queen
You need to …

[spoiler]
1. Get into the bottom floor somehow, e.g. by jumping down the mushrooms on one outside wall of the tower and lockpicking the garden entrance, though there are other ways.
2. Combine a sussur bloom from the garden with the elevator mechanism in that room, then go up a floor to use the lift.
That's just it, I can no longer find the elevator mechanism. It's gone, and just an empty space remains.

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Originally Posted by Staden
That's just it, I can no longer find the elevator mechanism. It's gone, and just an empty space remains.

Ah, didn’t realise you’d run into a bug. It was still working fine for me.


"You may call it 'nonsense' if you like, but I've heard nonsense, compared with which that would be as sensible as a dictionary!"
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Well that's 3 minutes and 39 seconds that I'll never get back and I don't regret it at all.

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah
Well that's 3 minutes and 39 seconds that I'll never get back and I don't regret it at all.

Not a fan of the genre?

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Some corrections to an earlier post:
Shove (as action and only 5ft) should always be successful if the target is surprised (like you are invisible or stealth). This does not change the fact that mage hand should never be able to shove anything.

The way BG3 is now things will be interesting when I got a gith rogue (two bonus actions and invisible mage hand) and a mage casts improved invisibility on him. I guess this duo can beat most encounters and enemies just stand there and do nothing. The mage stays in stealth and does nothing so his concentration is not broken.


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For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.

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You are on fire sir.

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Originally Posted by Ragitsu
Originally Posted by Boblawblah
Well that's 3 minutes and 39 seconds that I'll never get back and I don't regret it at all.

Not a fan of the genre?
I was being serious, I love it.

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Originally Posted by Madscientist
Some corrections to an earlier post:
Shove (as action and only 5ft) should always be successful if the target is surprised (like you are invisible or stealth). This does not change the fact that mage hand should never be able to shove anything.
Are you saying that you want to correct this statement, or is the above your already-corrected statement? If the later: why? Why should shove always be successful in that case?

It should still be a contested check, albeit I'd give Advantage to the invisible party. Shove should only be automatic if the target is incapacitated imo.

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Lenina Huxley: Chief, you can take this job, and you can shovel it.

John Spartan: Take this job... and shovel it.

Lenina Huxley: Yeah?

John Spartan: Close enough.

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Originally Posted by Ragitsu
For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.

I do not think that Newton was talking about DnD 5E rules when writing this.

Unless you suggest the shover should be moved backwards when shoving somebody forward wink


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