Originally Posted by 1varangian
Originally Posted by Shlamorel
In DND can a player not say "I use mage hand to try and push soandso" and the DM would make you do some sort of roll / skill check or something? Like for abilities and things that aren't ACTUAL abilities or spells.

Also mage hand can "try" to shove anything. You'll almost never succeed unless it's invisible. So is the issue that a useless shove button is on a regular mage hand, that githyanki mage hand is invisible, that invisible = 100% shove success, or that a shove mechanic exists? (Sincerely just trying to figure out what part is the issue - I realize it sounds like I'm being a dick, just more interested in learning which part you don't like).

I don't play a ton of DND. So I'm being sincere, not a jerk. Sorry if it comes off that way. I thought DND allowed all kinds of flexibility with your imagination, it's just all about getting the dice roll and your proficiency).
I don't know how I can explain it any clearer. But I'll try.

The Mage Hand description explicitly states the hand is a weak force (carries 10 pounds/4.5kg) and can not attack. A Shove is an attack action. Larian allowed the attack and changed Shove into a Bonus Action.

The Shove rule states the Shove distance is 5ft. Larian tripled that distance and then some.

A Cantrip allowing an extra Shove per turn is insanely overpowered when every battlefield has long falls and even insta-kill falls.

An invisible hand or PC getting a 100% success rate with Shove is another Larian invention. Invisible or not, the hand should not be able to Shove anything. And invisible or not, Gale with his negative Strength modifier should not be power shoving Dror Ragzlin into a hole with a 100% success rate.

Larian ignored or changed the rules at every possible point, and created highly vertical battlefields everywhere, to make combat a dumb shove fest.


Thanks. That's all very helpful and objective. This post negates some things i asked in previous post,so ignore any related questions i asked.

Shove distance too far.
Action vs bonus action.
Invisibility improving shove chance.

All BG3 and not DND. Makes sense.

I do think games should have a little creative freedom as theres a couple key differences. Namely, the main goal of a DM in tabletop isn't to actively permanently kill every player, whereas that is the "DM" goal in a video game.

But I can definitely agree deviating from these speicifc rules is too much.

I still stand by githyanki mage hand as it's it's own distinctly named ability, which I assume is not in DND rules. So we can say maybe they shouldn't have invented githyanki mage hand, but I am fine with an invented ability having it's own rules.

Last edited by Shlamorel; 11/08/22 07:24 AM.