Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Mega-threads and Guides Reactions like Solasta!

+1000

Absolutely not a good idea. The way reactions are implemented in Solasta is quite bad, a very cumbersome and low effort translation of what a reaction is meant to be. I could not play the Paladin or Monk because I got so annoyed to be interrupted every single time. I still enjoyed that game but it is not a good example of an effective use of reactions in a video game.

@mbpopolano24

I dont really blame you for not reading all 33 pages of this.
But as far as i know (and feel free to corect me, if im wrong) people most often demand "optional" reactions like Solasta ... meaning if you want it automatic, its your choice.

I'm also amused by the fact that they object... and then cite specifically two things which are *Not* reactions as their reasoning...

Just my 5 cents... I played Solasta a lot recently with a team of reaction-reliant classes (Paladin, Monk, Bard and a Wizard) just to see how i feel about their implementation of reactions and pop-ups.

I have to say i did not feel that the pop-ups are slowing down the game at all (I did feel the animations are really slow though compared to BG3 and that is massively slowing down combat for me), however they added a lot of tactical thinking to my playthrough which felt really good. I really liked their implementation overall, as others said it was also nice to be able to do things on the enemy's turn (it spiced up the generic my turn, their turn gameplay loop) - so im looking forward how BG3 will try to top or match this level.

Agreed Mat22 - just replayed Valley DLC with monk, and have played all the classes you noted (barring Bard). Popups are not elegant, but they give me the precise control and reactivity I need and that is important for my tactical enjoyment. That said, I do understand that some people simply don't like them and don't want to have to make these decisions with any regularity. I really think (as has been suggsted many times) the simplest approach would be to keep the system they have for those who don't mind, and to introduce popups option for those who do, perhaps with some additional configurability. From an implementation stand point, popups appear uncomplicated. But everything depends on the backend and how they have implemented when events fire - but the fact that they can support events out of turn order already in their existing reactions scheme means that it must be there? Things like smite are different, not being reactions, but for bog standard reactions, I don't quite see why it is problematic to expose more nuanced control. We'll have to see what they have done though - they are working on some alternative. [I have forgotten or not read all the pages of this thread, so maybe their is some technological limitation people have mentioned that means popups can't be implemented - dislike is not a technological limitation ;-) ]

For the reaction system, it seems to me, that

1) Having a passive reaction system like we have now is unpopular, because it is too inflexible. IE you can not choose to only block attacks with the shield spell from strong enemies. The goblin attacks you, you cast shield, your reaction is gone, and the Minotaur attacks. This can be solved with some homebrew (like cutting word now) but that creates its own problems

2) Having an active reaction system like Solasta will slow down the game quite a lot. After EVERY attack of a Paladin, the game will ask you if you want to smite, bards have reaction for attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, basically after EVERY dice roll in the game if you play with a bard, you will have to click away a pop up menu. This allows a high degree of flexibility, but slows down combat and is annoying

My solution:
Bring back slight real time with pause elements (might even make some BG1/2 purists happy). One key (lets say the space bar) is assigned as the "reaction" key.
During any animation, if you click the button, the game stops and a pop up menu with all possible reactions comes up. That means you will not have to select no for smites after every attack, but can choose yourself when you want it, without loosing flexibility as described in 1)

You could then also assign automatic reactions as they are now, with a toggle, if you want to. So if shield is toggled on, every time my wizard is hit, they cast the shield spell.
If shield is not toggled on, if I am attacked, nothing happens, unless I press space during the animation, and then select the shield spell as my reaction (if more than one reactions are available, for example a bards cutting word etc)

This keeps the advantages of both systems, and allows for flexible reactions without homebrew, as they are in the PHB, without making this a pure tactic simulator with hour long combats thanks to pop up menus every three seconds.

Tl;dr:
- introduce a reaction key
- individual reactions can be toggled on, if shield is toggled on, every time my wizard is attacked, they cast shield
- individual reactions can be toggled of, then, only if I press the reaction key during the appropriate animation a pop up menu appears and I can select what I want to do
- keeps the flexibility of the Solasta system without sacrificing the simplicity of the current BG3 reaction system

We've been over this often...

This:

Is demonstrably false, and has been demonstrated and shown to be so multiple times. This is a fiction. It's not true or accurate.

This:

Is ridiculous hyperbole that only serves to make your other comments look dishonest and disingenuous.

=

Everything else has already been suggested and chewed over in the course of this thread, multiple times.

A system that can be set up in your options to prompt the player when reactions are available, and can be set to always take certain ones, or to never take other ones, or to remain as hands-off as it is now if that's what is wanted, seems to be generally agreed to be the best way to satisfy everyone's wants and needs, which is what we should be aiming to do.

No real time elements in the turn-based section of a turn-based game, thanks.

+1

After much discussion on this thread about RT elements, it just wouldn't work, imo. The camera is in no way equipped to handle that, AND it would make laggy computers super hard to manage reactions.

Imagine it. Enemy mage casts Fireball. Lag. Camera is still on the other side of the battlefield. Wait. He's what? Tries to hit RT Reaction button. Too late. By the time you even discovered he was casting Fireball, it was too late for you to use Counterspell. Now, half your party's dead.

Yeah. No thanks. I'll take Solasta popups any day over that. They really aren't that bad, and if Larian improved the Solasta concept, popups could be VERY smooth and unobtrusive.

I mean, we got past dial up era. I can play complex FPS with 128 players with not a hint of lag so I don't buy this argument for a game as slow as BG3.

Funnily enough, it's Larian's camera AI and game engine itself that causes the problem that GM4Him mentions, rather than actual game lag... When a new turn starts, the camera is Often slow to respond, and the creature it is switching to is often already moving, acting or otherwise taking their turn well before the camera has even focused on them - this is especially true of archers and other ranged-focused creatures. I cannot count the number of times I've ended my turn, only to have the camera essentially freak out as it tries to zip over to a goblin, who has already fired an arrow while the camera is in transit, and it barely or cannot even reach them before it's attempting to yank away in a different direction to show what they hit, but doesn't get there either because it's yanking back to where they are now shoving something else - and the camera doesn't even manage to steady its focus at all until the goblin is more or less finished with their turn. This happens on the regular, and is something they've struggled to address through several attempts to improve their camera control.

I wonder if Larian will even formally address Reactions on PFH for Patch 9, as they have on these forums. I have 0 expectations that they could produce some testing game footage of proposed changes even after over 2y of EA.

Agreed, the camera argument is weird. Larian just needs to fix it. If the camera is not pointing to the spot where things are currently happening this is a fault in itself.

I think this is one of the few cases where it is really justified to build in two options. Have a system where you need to press a key (with generous time) for those who want to avoid popups completely and still retain control plus a popup based system where you can fine tune in what situations you get the popup. Let players decide between the two.

The most important thing for me here is that we really get decent reactions. The entire system is built around 1 action / 1 reaction, and Larian is already not honoring the 1 action part sufficiently, with allowing Sorcerers to cast two (non-cantrip) spells in one round or by having haste give another action. In combination with the lack of good reactions this will make the turn based alpha strike issue worse than it is P&P.

Not fiction, its fact, you put a pop up in a multiplayer match and multiple people have to react to those pop ups it adds time. Those seconds add up if its continues to happen and makes player turns longer.

Hello Niara

Fortunately the point is now moot when it comes to BG3, as for each reaction we now have the option either to have the game prompt us, have it fire automatically, or turn it off, so individual gamers can just pick whatever they prefer. Well, at least for a number reactions and reaction-like actions, and fingers crossed this will be rolled out more consistently now that it seems the patch 9 proof of concept has been successful.

There’s just been some new post patch 9 discussion of reactions, in fact, see https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=845584.

Ya, I skimmed that thread and was directed here, didn't notice last post was dec 5th, oh well.

Successful... yes! Reactions are in! BUT: not on everything. Some things like attacks of opportunity and shield master reactions and such are oddly enough not a part of the reaction system. I am hoping it will all be implemented in the end though. Would be weird and inconsequential if it wasn't.

I prefer Larian's reaction system, it's best of both worlds. You can micromanage if you want, like in Solasta; or I can set a good-enough default and just let it play out pretty much as is.

I would like OA to have an extra toggle to ask if I want to smite or sneak attack (if able), but that's not a deal-breaker.

Reactions become more and more prevalent as levels, spells, magic items and powers accrue. Might as well have all the toggles.

My guess is that they're gonna go back and alter the reaction stuff they already made, and that it's going to be more complicated than making stuff for reactions from the ground up, like the things introduced in patch 9.