Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback AI shanking potion throws: bug or feature?

I personnaly think that people feel smart when they've done a move that seems better than another one depending the situation.
But if the move is BY DESIGN better... I don't think they are.

In exemple one may feel smart when he use a potion that spread fire and have a great effect on his ennemies / on the environment rather than having choosed to do something else.
But if fire potions were ALWAYS a better move than anything else, I wouldnt feel smart at all for using them.

Throwing potions is always better than drink them or using all class features and skills that have more or less the same effects. You'll feel smart once : after you understand what the game allow and how broken the feature you used is... then you'll feel dumb each time you're doing something else.

I always love when people make these kinds of comments. "and what if it's just vocal minority anyway?"

There is absolutely NO way to know such things, and IF people don't vocalize their problems with the game, then you could have a situation where "what if it's just that the majority isn't actually vocalizing their opinions anyway."

It is not helpful to make such comments and it just gets people even more stirred up. And the irony is that usually the ones who say such things are in the minority on this forum, so it always seems to be the opposite of what they are saying.

Throwing potions is a major issue brought up on more than just this forum. I'm fairly certain it's not just a vocal minority, but even if it is, vocalize away minority! At least let your voice be heard.

Im affraid i dont understand ...
How is advice "dont do that" provided to person who just listed reasons why he "ALLREADY dont do that" related to anything usefull? O_o

Yeah I agree with GM4Him. This section is made for us to provide feedback, so as long as this feedback is constructive and is actually a feedback (not buffoonish shouts inciting a yawning crowd to smash a nearby stall chain spread pointless retarded negativity), I'd like to read it and know what people think! It is interesting sometimes to look at things from other people's perspective.

There are loads of good points on both sides in this thread.

I agree it would make more sense for potions to be only usable on other characters when they’re right next to you, and magic pockets during combat are cheesy. But I also agree that throwing potions either by either my party or enemies is unlikely to turn the tide of battle or often be the best use of an action, and that magic pockets can be hand-waved as a stand-in for closer party inventory management which is not my favourite way to spend time.

Further, I see it as a positive rather than a negative of both 5e and BG3 that not every party needs a cleric/druid and we can instead mix it up as long as we’re willing to put some thought into alternative ways to cover the healing role. But also agree that BG3 currently makes that too easy and that some of the ways it does it (e.g. wizards learning healing spells) stick in my craw.

So that’s my input as a member of the heretofore silent minority who don’t mind one way or the other about potion throwing

I don't think 5e or Baldur's Gate 3 specifically need a healing class in the party.

Short Rests heal a ton of HP. Fighters self-heal. Rangers heal. Bards heal. Abjuration Wizards prevent damage. Potions are everywhere in BG3. And Long Rest heals everything anyway. 5e has done a great job of making healer classes not as mandatory as they used to be.

That's why the combat medic classes should get to keep their monopoly on ranged healing instead of every class tossing potions left and right.

Healing aside, throwing potions effectively lets any PC cast Haste, Invisibility, Sleep etc... None of these effects require concentration, saving throws or even line of sight. Throwing potions seems entirely divorced from the rest of the 5e system.

It seems like wild throws are a bug, not a feature. Which means that, though I can choose not to throw potions, there's nothing I can do to avoid getting peppered by inch perfect half-court shots.

Which brings out an interesting question :
Could you go through the game with using JUST potions, barrels, food and scrolls? (if these were unlimited...). Ignore all class abilities. If yes...WTF Larian.

I'm afraid I don't quite get it... Are you perchance implying that you posted something useful in this thread?

Yeap, it can lead to a lot of unusual situations. And you're not restricted by your classes, for example you can make everyone in your party invisible just using a potion. Fun.

It seems to be a repeating issue with Larian homebrew that Saving Throws or other 5e rules are completely ignored. The surface spam is guaranteed damage (which is why Concentration spells are basically unusable). Ropes and chains don't have AC and anyone can simply choose to cut one with any ranged weapon. Falling boulders don't allow Saving Throws. Astarion's gimmicky vampire bite has 100% to hit with a meme-like "happy" condition which contributes to making vampirism seem like a funny thing. I don't think games should take themselves too seriously, but that's way too far on the other end of the spectrum where even horror is just another meme. Do Void Bulbs now allow a Saving Throw?

Why does an arrow that misses still detonate an AoE right on the target? It missed. How does an arrowhead pack gallons of acid to create a pool?

And good point on the non-healing potions. Potion throwing is a GREAT option, but the mechanic needs to be to catch them and DRINK them on your own turn. Turning all classes into semi-spellcasters with an abundance or scrolls and potions with "creative" ways to use them is not cool.

If you recall, I conducted a playthrough of act 1 a little while back (including the harder encounters), using nothing but shove and throw. It was very doable and uncomfortably more effective than previous plays I'd done with various classes. No class abilities or traits were ever needed... I literally removed all class abilities and spells entirely from my hot bars for the run... why, if I could use throwing potions as well, the entire *concept* of character classes just up and vanishes.

I had no idea you did that. Reminds me of my barbarian run where I did the same thing. No weapons at all. Just shove and throw using potions and resting - SOLO. No companions. I used rage, though. Can't believe you didn't even use class abilities. I got to the harpies and decided I'd had enough.

BTW, I still had like 10 healing potions by the harpies fight and I'd only long rested like once, maybe twice. I didn't die either, so it wasn't like I reloaded to keep going. If I had a full party of all shoving/throwing and potion throwing, I would have slaughtered the harpies. As it was, I almost beat them. The last one had like 5 HP before she killed me. The only reason she did was because the harpies AI has them constantly fly away and throw stones. So shove/throw doesn't work. Oh... Right... I ONLY picked up and threw enemies. Weapons were off limits.

I don't like "lotions and potions galore" in D&D, or CRPGs in general. I don't really enjoy finding potions in every third chest, or a potion merchant in every tiny burg and hamlet. Collecting and rationing potions isn't an entertaining mini-game for me. Crafting potions (or meals that do similar things) from ingredients scattered around the game just isn't very fun. I find quests where I'm suddenly poisoned or diseased and then have to find an antidote in the form of a specific potion fairly annoying, but at least there it's part of the story. If they can make it part of the story, like with the wyvern's poison, then sure I can get into it a bit, but it's never really like that in the main.

Invariably I end every game like this with way more potions than I'd ever know what to do with. The idea of rage throwing them against on the floor has a certain appeal, but only because I wish they just didn't exist to drag everything else down to their level in a big messy puddle. I think they should strip all common potions from the game entirely, and then see if their gameplay and their difficult curve and their in-game economy even still works without them? If it doesn't, then they should go back to the drawing board on how potions are implemented. Why do RPGs always require hundreds of potions or stims or need a magical pharmacopeia to rival Walgreens every time anyway?

If things like potions were sufficiently rare, then they would be more interesting, but they never are. Healing potions are the worst offenders, since you know they're practically stacked to the ceiling everywhere.

The idea of a potion-based class archetype seems equally silly to me, since that was supposed to be built-in to the wizard's repertoire. I guess if that was the whole deal for potions, like they could only be produced by that one class role with some drama to it, then at least we'd have that niche in the party dynamic for people who are super into the idea, without them spilling all over the place. I like the apothecary as a narrative device, since that goes way back and feels classic, but when you get to the practical ins and outs, potions just seem to diminish the mystique of everything else.

One potentially interesting approach would be to take every common potion (eg healing), make it a rare potion and then treat it that way, perhaps by turning it into something with more of a double edge. Like the ancient pharmakon, that meant both "medicine" and "poison," so that there could be a potential malus and some intrigue there. Perhaps, like real drugs, they lose their potency over time, or become addictive, or have some kind of hidden cost that compounds over time, making them less of a freebie. Or at least for the uninitiated something like that might happen. You know, instead of potions just dynamiting the difficulty level and the challenge rating with a form of magic whose rules are way murkier and less settled than the normal spellcasting stuff. Or I don't know, perhaps if they really do want to make potions the beating heart of the game, then maybe the story, the UI, and general combat flow could have a more established place for them. But the idea of everyone just swigging and bouncing here and there and everywhere, like Gummy Bears, I mean it's ridiculous. Reinventing the bomb potion from Gauntlet in the form of void bulbs or whatever, also seems kinda lame. They've struggled to do something worthwhile with the idea forever.

imo the point of throwing a potion bottle is so every character doesn't have to carry potions... and the point of that is so the players don't collect 200 potion bottles as they move around the map
as a game mechanic it lazzy but okey as a stopgap to keep things moving along... once you release the game its better to simply give the bad guys potions that break when they die like in BG1 and BG2

Yeah I mean I get it, just sorta makes my eyes gloss over though, cause I think they could do better. I feel like seeing an enemy quaff a potion should be a real 'oh fuck' moment for the party and something that doesn't happen in every other fight, cause if it happens all the time it just loses its edge and its impact. On the other hand, if they want such a potion themed experience, maybe lean into that more with the plot? I don't know maybe have Halsin mention something about how these Goblin have been totally juicing, and that's the only way they managed to pull one over on him. Maybe Minthara complains how all these potions are worth far more than the Goblins' miserable lives, but the Absolute demands sacrifice. Perhaps get a subplot going where the Goblins are all bickering and fighting about potion stuff amongst themselves, or all covetous and demanding we hand over our potions or try to trade for them and such. Perhaps the temple was renowned for it's storehouse of potions, some ancient stash, and that's why the Absolute is setting up shop there. Gobbos might quaff their potions in dramatic fashion before charging the gate. Aradin's crew could say something about it, like how these Goblins weren't just drunk off dwarf blood, but something even worse. Maybe Nettie is worried about it, and the shadow druids have some concerns as well. Ethel should cackle about it before she goes down, like she was somehow involved, and we'll drown in potions before we're through. Stuff of that sort. On the whole I think they're just using them too much and way too heavy out the gate though without the tie in, like most of the magic enchanted loot including the scrolls and the arms and armor. Finding a good potion should feel like a bigger deal, with more build up and flare in the drinking. Otherwise it's like why not just use wands or something more combat thematic?

It's one of my other examination threads. I made a Githyanki wizard with 17 strength named ka'chuka ^.^

My rules, if I remember correctly were:
- full party of 4
- no weapons
- no armour
- no clothes
- no items 'used' properly - only thrown. (includes no drinking healing potions)
- Only using Throw and Shove, Hotbars Empty
- Hide permitted but only when shoving wasn't an option, since Hide is an "everyone can do this always" feature.
- Help action permitted only if absolutely necessary, since it's also an "everyone can do this always" feature.

It was an incredibly smooth and easy run, abominably so.

Amen, +100

I recommend Niara’s Ka’chu’ka thread.

After crushing the Gith patrol with four naked level 3 PCs, Niara gives her conclusion.

I personally don’t have a problem with the concept;however, drinking a potion should be more effective that splashing in one. As an emergency tactic, yeah maybe being half as effective but getting an AOE use. The issue here is resistance is a set percent in D&D (half or immune). The only way to do this is once again another home brew to fix a home brew inconsistency. Maybe 1/4 resistance with yeeted potions (half effectiveness).

Haven’t tried it yet, has any one thrown a potion of str to see if it gives group effects? Do all potions work
Ike this?

Yeah, that's Larian combat for you. Once you figure out the most optimal openers and actions, you just repeat it until the end of the game.

It worked on DOS2 and it is the same here so far. Just look at sin tee on YouTube.

He does solo runs with every class, but IT ALWAYS leads back to him using the same items and same strategy matter the class and it works.

The combat design isn't particularly challenging at all. That's why I'm so surprised people have issues beating the Githyanki patrol without cheesing or pre-positioning.

It's honestly so formulaic and only complicated by the fact they have a lot of HP and have multi-attack.