Originally Posted by GM4Him
Originally Posted by professoryins
sneak attack and banish etc don't work with the new system, you only roll 'weapon die' again, (and probably only once if its like before) basically they are trying to reduce damage swings a lot more.

new system crit = +d12 max. old system crit for some builds = +12d6+d8+d4


game design wise it makes a lot of sense, reduces crit fishing, monster fights are less likely to be one shot by luck, less variation in dmg from build to build


but the problem is, psychologically, some players live for that crazy synergy, and the big feeling on crits. they might be giving that up for more stable encounters/battles

as far as 'nerfing' mages, not really. much more consistent access to forcing disadvantage on saving throws increases mage damage. (every 'crit') gives inspiration now.

anyhow the crit stuff is a test and will probably be iterated, maybe they'll buff crits in a different way or reverse it, but I'm of the opinion the changes are probably fairly well balanced, more than the game was previously. However game design isn't all about balance. its also about fun, the question is, will this stuff make the game more fun? I dunno
Where do you see in the document that sneak attack and banish etc. Don't work with the new system? Is it because it says Damage Dice are rolled a second time?

Either way, that's SERIOUSLY lame, and it still means wizards get the raw end of the deal. Barbarian hits with greataxe and Crits. 4d6 damage plus strength bonus. Mage hits by rolling nat 20 with Firebolt. Normal damage is 2d10. Nat 20 doesn't increase his damage. It's still 2d10.

well. it would be helpful if they clarify, but the wording they use now is similar to brutal critical's wording. which only applies to the weapon dice.

you roll the dice of the weapon or unarmed strike, not you roll your damage dice.

also you likely don't use 2d6 with brutal crit since its only 1 extra d6 so the d12 is the best use case.


and yeah brutal crit is nicer by comparison, however brutal crit is a class feature, and a 1/20 chance to roll an extra 1-3 d12 is far below other class features, like an extra d6-to d8 once per turn, or more dice on cantrips

quick math with. https://anydice.com/

, 3d12 averages to +19.5 damage. lets say its 1/10 attacks that hit(since low rolls miss) that's an average of +1.9 damage


1d12+5+(1.9 on average from t3 brutal crit) or, 13.5 average damage at 20


meanwhile firebolt is a 4d10 every time.

which means the damage is going from 5.5 on average to 22 on average.

so basically, mathematically firebolt with no crit beats the best critical damage booster with best possible crit weapon. The big dif is extra attacks, but mages can cast cantrip and spells in one turn, sorcerers can double spells, or make cantrips bonus actions, etc


this is why they had to remove spell attacks from critical. before bonuses to attacks balanced the difference, but now those are gone.

Last edited by professoryins; 22/08/22 04:18 AM.