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[DECEPTION] dialogues in my opinion are used in situations, where you want to claim something that NPC wont believe ... so you need to "decieve" them to start believing it ...
Here Nettie is forcing you to say those words, and no matter if you will or will not mean it, she accepts you said them no matter what ... [deception] roll therefore makes no sense.


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Originally Posted by Wormerine
Originally Posted by Zerubbabel
The game's not going to stop you from progressing if you refuse to drink the poison. So, how would the game be able to distinguish between a dialogue option that just gives you the poison and a dialogue option that gives you the poison but [DECEPTION]?
Well, I think that if you fail deception check, then Nettie stops to trusts you - positions you with the branch? Attacks?

Honestly, I would be fine with just (lie) option - mechanical difference I would like to see is different companion approval. I occasionally find it frustrating is when I say something to an NPCs and companions take it at face value. At the very least the difference can be a good roleplaying tool - in Planescape a lot of choices didn’t get reactivity as fas as I know, but being able to express character’s intention is good! If the game can naturally react to it is even better.

Yeah, I have to admit...On first playthroughts, I auto picked "not swearing" to avoid approval loss from Astarion (some mental gymnastic was needed to do that indeed). But now I'm tring to figure out what the hell I want from my character to do from a RP point of view. I do think I might pick "I swear" from now on (It fits my diplomatic side - that I was trying to fight for some reason- better anyway). But yes, I won't say no to more options like lying or even being able to persuade her further more.

Also...you can get the poison and antidote from her corpse. I'm not sure I understand using that as an argument but I agree about most things said about team swearing.

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I don't know her, and she's just finished threatening to kill me, so no, I say "eff off" and try to walk away. If she's dumb enough to attack us regardless, then I put her down, which has happened every time so far. And THEN I take the poison off her body ^^

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Originally Posted by Wormerine
Originally Posted by Zerubbabel
The game's not going to stop you from progressing if you refuse to drink the poison. So, how would the game be able to distinguish between a dialogue option that just gives you the poison and a dialogue option that gives you the poison but [DECEPTION]?
Well, I think that if you fail deception check, then Nettie stops to trusts you - positions you with the branch? Attacks?

Honestly, I would be fine with just (lie) option - mechanical difference I would like to see is different companion approval. I occasionally find it frustrating is when I say something to an NPCs and companions take it at face value. At the very least the difference can be a good roleplaying tool - in Planescape a lot of choices didn’t get reactivity as fas as I know, but being able to express character’s intention is good! If the game can naturally react to it is even better.
I love the implication of having:
1. I swear
2. [Lie] I swear
And your companions psychically knowing right then and there on the spot which one you meant. Because of the tadpole.


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Originally Posted by Zerubbabel
Originally Posted by Wormerine
Originally Posted by Zerubbabel
The game's not going to stop you from progressing if you refuse to drink the poison. So, how would the game be able to distinguish between a dialogue option that just gives you the poison and a dialogue option that gives you the poison but [DECEPTION]?
Well, I think that if you fail deception check, then Nettie stops to trusts you - positions you with the branch? Attacks?

Honestly, I would be fine with just (lie) option - mechanical difference I would like to see is different companion approval. I occasionally find it frustrating is when I say something to an NPCs and companions take it at face value. At the very least the difference can be a good roleplaying tool - in Planescape a lot of choices didn’t get reactivity as fas as I know, but being able to express character’s intention is good! If the game can naturally react to it is even better.
I love the implication of having:
1. I swear
2. [Lie] I swear
And your companions psychically knowing right then and there on the spot which one you meant. Because of the tadpole.

I’d actually be fine with using a deception check to lie here, even if it was an easy one. Given that you have the ability to notice when NPCs are lying through insight checks, then particularly a high wisdom character like Nettie presumably is should be given a chance to realise you don’t actually mean what you say. The game is almost certainly never going to get to a point where you need to either follow through or break your oath, so there’s nothing to stop someone just picking the non-deceive option even if they don’t really mean it to avoid the check, but I know I for one would still use the deception option for roleplay reasons and ideally for different companion reactions. Plus it gives the game the opportunity in future to respond to what you’re “really” like, as opposed to what you say.

Another place I really wanted to be able to deceive was in telling Minthara I’d join her in the attack on the grove, and there her tadpole should certainly give her the chance to notice your lie. And if it were more obvious that the game didn’t actually force you to follow through then more people might try out that option.

Given the dice rolls do interrupt the flow of conversation you wouldn’t necessarily want these options everywhere, so I’d be fine with just non-committal answers where there was no real consequence to lying or not, such as agreeing to minor quests. Or also having a lie option that’s separate from deceive, but I prefer the consistency of using deception.


"You may call it 'nonsense' if you like, but I've heard nonsense, compared with which that would be as sensible as a dictionary!"
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Originally Posted by The_Red_Queen
Plus it gives the game the opportunity in future to respond to what you’re “really” like, as opposed to what you say.
Yeah, I don't BG3 has any kind of reputation system but if it did it could nicely work with it.

Now a bit of fantasising:
I think it would be cool if game kept track of promises we make and break. Perhaps one of our companions would be reluctant to trust us as he or she witnessed us lying to someone. Or maybe someone is easier convinced by our words as we are well know to stay true to what we say.

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Update : I tried it. I picked "I swear". I don't like it. I think Nettie just triggers my inner teenager xD Don't know yet what my final decision will be on this since both answers don't resonate with me. Oh well. Between now and the full release of the game I guess I have time to think about it.

Originally Posted by Zerubbabel
I love the implication of having:
1. I swear
2. [Lie] I swear
And your companions psychically knowing right then and there on the spot which one you meant. Because of the tadpole.

Yes, that or a deception check (as suggested by The_Red_Queen) would be swell smile

Originally Posted by Wormerine
Now a bit of fantasising:
I think it would be cool if game kept track of promises we make and break. Perhaps one of our companions would be reluctant to trust us as he or she witnessed us lying to someone. Or maybe someone is easier convinced by our words as we are well know to stay true to what we say.

I like that idea smile Might be hard to implement but I like it.

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i just kill the bitch


Luke Skywalker: I don't, I don't believe it.
Yoda: That is why you failed.
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For me, the whole Nettie scene comes down to the moment when I ask what the plant is and whether or not it will cure me.

If I make the insight roll that "something is off" then everything usually goes bad fast. I start questioning her and don't want to reveal things to her because I feel like "something is off." That typically leads me into a fight. Especially after she says, "To hells with it!" and gets ready to attack.

If I fail the insight roll then I typically just go along with her questions. I make the promise in most cases because I figure if I'm changing I'm a goner anyway.

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Originally Posted by Ussnorway
i just kill the bitch
Alright...how violent xD

Originally Posted by JandK
For me, the whole Nettie scene comes down to the moment when I ask what the plant is and whether or not it will cure me.

If I make the insight roll that "something is off" then everything usually goes bad fast. I start questioning her and don't want to reveal things to her because I feel like "something is off." That typically leads me into a fight. Especially after she says, "To hells with it!" and gets ready to attack.

If I fail the insight roll then I typically just go along with her questions. I make the promise in most cases because I figure if I'm changing I'm a goner anyway.

That's fair. I did try to do that on several playthrough.

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