That's something I have been thinking for a while - as a RPG and immersive sim fan Larian's RPG should be right up my alley. It hasn't been quite as simple as that, though.
What is your take? Do you have any cool stories to share, that resulted from game's systemic design? Do you think that tedium that comes with current design is well worth the creativity that it allows? Or do you wish BG3 were more streamlined, with more quality of life improvements, even if it would come at a cost of some systemic interactions?
Thanks for the interesting vid and thought-provoking topic. I’ve been mulling it over. While I’m a long-term fan of many cRPGs, those that are described as immersive sims tend to be ones that either haven’t drawn me, or I’ve tried and abandoned. I obviously prefer my stories to be more individually crafted and less emergent!
But as the interviewee said, they ended up authoring more stuff with Weird West than they intended, so perhaps it’s a matter of finding a balance that suits the game. You’re spot on about the limitations of a purely scripted game, in terms of players butting their heads up against what the devs had time to create, and I can see the benefits of having immersive sim elements that can blur the edges and give the illusion of more content than there is, as well as potentially adding enjoyment for those who like that kind of thing.
Larian probably do have an opportunity here, to build out immersive sim elements of the game. I’ve been struggling to think of examples in BG3 where it’s outcomes of combining procedural elements that I’ve enjoyed rather than content that has been explicitly written. And I agree that the lack of consistency is a real barrier.
For example, when Speaking with Dead on the woman in Waukeen’s Rest in front of her husband, you get him asking a question which is a nice touch though it doesn’t actually lead to any info you couldn’t get another way. But if you then think, “I wonder if talking to Kanon might give me a way to avert Arka’s tragedy?” as per another recent thread, you then find she doesn’t react in any way if you communicate with her brother in front of her.
Thieving is another area where immersive sim elements could show up, but there I find the more procedural elements clunky, like anyone who happens to spot you being referred to as “the guard” and there not being clear logic as to when you’re going to get caught. I tried so many ways to steal the idol of Silvanus that I still feel should have worked, and it was so frustrating that either they didn’t for no clear reason or set off a massacre of tieflings with no opportunity to avert it and no evidence the tieflings were in any way involved. Though I quite enjoyed in my first playthrough when Nettie had a good grumble about thieves after trying to give me an antidote that I’d already pick-pocketed from her. With some work, there is some potential here I think. And I guess you could use the prison system to get into the shattered sanctum by stealing in the courtyard, bypassing the guards in the atrium but I’ve never tried. I’ll have to give it a go as part of my attempt as per another thread to find all the ways you can get to the goblin leaders.
One thing that might count is use of the disguise self spell. I’m sure there are tons of ways to use it I’ve not come across yet, but will certainly play around more. The fact you can disguise yourself as drow to get goblin cooperation, change your appearance to avoid consequences of criminality, and even to avoid the limitations on corpses not talking to their killers is a nice touch. EDIT: Even here, there might be some further development as you can only disguise yourself as default examples of the race, so no deep gnomes or duergar.
Use of familiars and animal companions is another potential source of immersive sim elements that doesn’t yet feel as though it’s been developed to its full potential. I like the fact that I could use NPC reactions to my animal, while currently OTT, to help me sneak around. But surely there’s more that can be done there. It’s one of the few areas where systems (sneaking and distraction) can be combined and I agree with the OP that there aren’t enough of these.
The bard’s performance ability seems to be something that has been purposely introduced as an immersive sim element, and it sounds as though some folk have had hours of fun playing around with it, but I’m afraid I lost interest quite quickly. Though it was nice to be able to jam with Alfira and Volo at the party, and I did try using it to distract NPCs.
Crafting isn’t fully developed in BG3 and generally isn’t something I’m particularly fussed with, but I enjoyed (belatedly) realising I could combine two parts of a broken spear to make a unique item. That probably falls on the scripted side rather than procedural, but there maybe is some potential here.
I guess another “system” that has story potential is use of feather fall and magical jump to reach places in unconventional ways. I saw use of feather fall to get into the Underdark in one of the early panels from hell and thought it was so cool. But then got put off experimenting with it in previous patches after finding various locations where it seemed I could jump to places that were otherwise inaccessible only to wake up dead. Not sure whether those have now been closed off, I’ll have to check. But it would be nice for the game to reward patient players with some fun secret locations.
I’d be interested in hearing from folk who do enjoy immersive sims what BG3 systems they think could be developed into compelling immersive sim elements, and how they’d need to be changed and combined to achieve their potential. What are some good examples from other games that BG3 could learn from? What have you tried to do but failed due to inconsistent implementation of principles in BG3?
EDIT: I guess other potential source of immersive sim elements are in the things you can throw and use as improvised weapons, but I’ve mainly played weedy characters so tend to forget they’re there. There’s also interactivity with the environment, but again I’ve tended to forget about that and haven’t paid enough attention to chandeliers or stalactites you can bring crashing down, or statues you can shove so am not sure what mileage there is there. Thus far, I have pretty much refused to engage with barrels and surfaces as I find them too much, but perhaps I should give them more of a chance.
