Originally Posted by Ragitsu
Originally Posted by GM4Him
Look. Let's put it this way. It is fantasy. It isn't reality. In D&D, usually goblins are vicious, malicious, terrible monsters. However, if in your D&D play sessions you make goblins just another race that aren't this way, that's fine. You see them as another race. However, this is not the goblin tribe that Larian is presenting to us. The goblins and their children are vicious, malicious, terrible monsters. Larian, being the DM, has the right to present them as such.

That - right there - lies close to the heart of the matter: what WOTC/modern D&D establishes and what the DM/players decide. Goblins are monsters; Goblins are not vertically-challenged humans that got smacked by the ugly stick a thousand or so times yet are otherwise "decent people". Succubi aren't edgy nymphomaniacs; Succubi are capricious and malevolent manifestations of the lower planes who use sex as a weapon. Mind Flayers aren't yet another sentient/sapient being with a specific dietary quirk; Mind Flayers establish societies that revolve around the utter domination of "lower beings" for the express purpose of satisfying their hunger/curiosity.

A simple tautology is the most efficient way of lubricating the machinery of escapism: "They're monsters because they're monsters." If one wishes to avoid getting lost in the forest, then one should avoid stepping into the forest.

Overly-conscientious players: "Can we reform them?"
DM: "No."

Overly-conscientious players: "Are there any exceptions to the rule?"
DM: "No."

DM: "Do you want to spend your sessions of Dungeons & Dragons making painstaking efforts to ensure that each and every humanoid monster isn't deep-down a genuinely caring individual? Do you want to escort groups of quite literally monstrous POWs - who may not be innocent and may in fact attempt to murder you along the way - to medieval court systems in villages/towns/cities that are all-too-accustomed to attacks by these monsters?'
Overly-conscientious players: "..."

At your table, you can do what you want to make it fun. Other people can do what they want at their tables. Neither of you are actually wrong and it honestly bugs me how you derride people who you seem to think are engaging with the game "the wrong way." In the examples you presented, it sounds like the players and DM aren't a good match for each other. The DM you present is kind of dickish for ignoring what the players clearly want to do, and the players would be dickish if they steamroll the DM and ignore what they want to play themselves. The solution in the examples you gave would be for the players to find a DM on their wavelength and the DM to find a different group. Or even better, they all should have figured out what they want ahead of time so as not to waste time butting up against the situation you describe. Then everyone gets to have their fun.