Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Suggestion on How To Improve Spammable Long Rests and Encourage Item Usage

As far as difficulty goes, there will be higher difficulty levels to pick at launch if the game is too easy for you. I would think in general they would balance the game around resting the amount of times needed to see the companion scenes (not including current bugs with the scenes, which will hopefully be fixed).

There is no shruging smilie here? :-/

Don't play this game with me Rag. You won't like the ending.

Stop nagging, stop picking, stop contrarianism, and stop arguing for arguing's sake if you have nothing to say. Tangents and broadening ideas adding to a topic with ideas of their own is normal.

This is a moderation warning, and I only give one. If someone is derailing a thread, I will jump in, you don't need to. However, you're the reason why I'm jumping in.

You do not (should not) need to reply to this unless you have something relevant to add to the topic, not replying would be your best move. Can't put it any clearer than that.

I absolutely agree that any sane person would not rest knowing there's a bug eating away at their brains. But unfortunately the game does not translate this very well due to how the resting mechanic is implemented. It locked the story away behind this mechanic so I as a player, have to ignore the story immersion of minimal rests in order to experience the story fully. If the resting mechanic didn't lock the story away, I personally would never rest at all as I don't have a need to nor from a story perspective would want to.

I am in my current playthrough about to enter Grymforge. 0 full rests, 0 consumables, 0 resources spent. But I do have over 100 partial rests because I want every bit of the story which is absolutely insane. So if anything it's the resting mechanic they need to tweak and improve in order to make sense with the story. Personally I think not making companion stories dynamic as we go along the world was a terrible mistake.


As for the NPCs, what they're offering us are presumptions because they assume we're dealing with a regular tadpole which is on a timed schedule, while some of the more powerful ones see there's power in it. Only a handful know that the tadpole is enveloped and that the magic surrounding it is preventing ceremorphosis. Once and if that stasis is gone, yes we are by all means screwed and a ticking time bomb that should avoid resting by any means possible, even as a gameplay mechanic. So their assumptions are correct assuming that the stasis breaks, but nothing indicates that the stasis will succumb to the passage of time, especially due to our Dreamer.


The only person that actually knows anything for sure is the Dreamer, whom I find so interesting because they and the tadpole are at each other's throats. The tadpole wants to do its natural thing to transform, but the Dreamer is trying to achieve something else entirely and seems to be keeping it at bay and even seems to have saved us from the fall and keeps saving us from other situations by warning us about threats mid-sleep. And they definitely aren't the tadpole nor the Absolute.


Actually there is a reason to suspect it is different.

• The Nautiloid's original crew were all murdered by the Absolute Mindflayers, who infected our party. Since in the beginning cinematic you can see the Absolute Mindflayer take a short look at the original crew before carrying on to abduct more victims for Moonrise Towers, which is then interrupted by Githyanki kith'raks.
• If you look closely at all the corpses and survivors, majority of them are wearing Absolute necklaces and have gone mad. Would make sense if two opposing Mindflayer factions were having telepathic wars between each other on the ship.
• And then to make matters worse, forces of Avernus also invade shortly after where the imps can be observed bullying the mentally unstable cultists, so they must have been in that state before Avernus.

The woman in the pod was most likely a victim of the original crew before the Absolute ones took over the ship, since she isn't wearing an Absolute necklace and is used as a plot device for story purposes to give the player an idea of what to expect from Illithids. Which I think it did beautifully because I avoided resting like the plague in my first playthrough exactly because of that ^^

One thing is for sure though, we are the only ones seeing the Dreamer and we're supposed to hear the Dreamer during the Nautiloid escape (implied by companions and ourselves during camp scenes). The cultists and True Souls only hear the Absolute's voice, but we hear both.

Skimmed through first couple posts, here is my take on OP post:

I do like spoiling resources in some games but I don't think BG3 is a kind of game that would benefit from it.

In order to facilitate item degradation I think we would need:

1) a simulation of time passing aka. day and night cicle or an equivalent
2) a way to perpetually gather and craft necessary/desired resources

I mostly associate items degradation with games with resource gathering as their primary focus: survival games, management games. Not that there can't be an overlap between genres, but I am really not sure what benefit would item spoiling add to the game.

If item degradation was tied to long rests (which is the only indication of time passing that I can think of), then it is somewhat a counter intuitive process - the thing you spend a big chunk of consumables on is the thing which causes unused consumables to spoil. What would be an intended benefit? Using as much items as possible in encounters? Gathering as much food only as is needed for next rest or two and leaving the rest for later? I don't see a rewarding gameplay loop there.

As other mentioned limiting rest isn't really an option due to its ties to critical story content. The real issue is that resting too much or too little can cause issues - either overabundance of resources per-encounter or missing on key story content. The latter is an issue, but I don't think it can be address anymore - unless of course, Larian drops camp scenes entirely after chapter1. I can see how it made sense to someone at some point - "Dragon Age: Origins had most of companion content happen in camp, with set place we can direct cutscenes for this content and not worry about how cinematics will look in random places, and it integrated resting with the narrative - us chatting with our companions after a day of adventuring". But it did create some unforseen issues, that will have to cause some reflection during BG3 post-mortem.

At this point I think the best think we can aim for is to make long resting as least frustrating as possible. How does one encourage players to develop a varied playstyle, and not just spam their most powerful spells in every encounter and call it a day? How does one ensure that players don't miss a big chunk of story content, because they don't use up their resources enough?

If there is overabundance of available usables then Larian can just remove some of them off the map, and/or make them more expensive to buy.

Personally, I think that the dream persona is the sentience within the artifact that Shadowheart carries.

I suspect that the characters' proximity on the ship to the artifact is why they are different from all the other true souls.

Regardless, I think it's more complicated than just: "there's a tadpole and it's bad to use the powers."

+1

Especially in regards to Lae'zel. She makes it abundantly clear that we should head straight to the creche, even threatens to kill you at one point if you don't.



Interesting!

At one point Shadowheart mentions having "the same exact dream on the Nautiloid" . Your idea would explain that

You know what... that is actually the best theory I heard so far on who the Dreamer might be.

And it honestly really fits too because the Dreamer gets really annoyed if you keep telling it that they are the tadpole. And they also get mad for acting ungrateful; "After everything I've done for you". And especially mad if you intentionally try to choke them during the final scene in EA; "You deserve everything that is coming".

Not to mention the part where we fall from the Nautiloid, the magic looks the same as when the artefact protects us during the Absolute's mind influence. And it manifests itself to us even without Shadowheart.

So what if Shadowheart's mission all this time is to take it to Baldur's Gate so we can unlock it and free the Dreamer from within. Because Shar's followers are supposed to bring down false Gods and beliefs, so their intention is to use the Dreamer as a weapon against the Absolute. But the Dreamer sees us as its true champions instead of the Followers of Shar, so instead it becomes our own actual companion. Would make sense then why we get to customize the Dreamer at the start of the game.

Which brings this topic back to a full circle as to why long rests should not be discouraged, due to all the fascinatingly intricate story hidden behind long rests ^^

Another more indirect way to deal with the problem could be to make resting a less optimal choice than it currently is.

For instance, a system that recognize if the player takes a rest in between skirmishes in an area occupied with multiple enemies belonging to one faction. This could trigger reinforcements, enemies in more advantageous positions and/or alarms & traps, making the next combat harder and more likely to require resources. Reward xp for extra enemies, but take this from other xp rewards so it does not get exploited into an xp farming tactic. Added advantage of this would be *IMMERCHION* as it makes the NPC behave in a more believable intelligent manner.

Very interesting theories here!

For the OP, I don't like the idea of food spoilage, because it'd then likely be a tedious mini game. Lost some food to the spoilage - forced to partial rest - need to find/buy some food -. need to rest again to recover spells etc.

I like JandK's exhaustion suggestion. Lets say you get some minor penalty after short resting. Short rest is a desired thing to use frequently because it recharges a lot of actions and some spells + convenient healing. So you won't be able to just ignore short rests completely.

Can you explain your line of thinking here? I don't see how consumables (potions, scrolls) expiring after X long rests is counter intuitive. If you're talking about food spoiling, then yes that's kind of circular - you have to spend the food on resting in order for it to not expire. But you don't spend potions & scrolls in order to rest. You'd be encouraged to use them more often and go as long as possible with rests to make use of your consumables.

The one problem I have with this theory is that the Dream Lover clearly gives you tadpole powers. You can't even get the bigger illithid powers unless you have the dream and the dream only happens if you use ILLITHID powers. Thus, the dream is connected to the tadpole, and the box weapon thing seems to be fighting it. Being a Gith weapon, it would not be connected to illithid powers.

Anyway, regardless, the story keeps prompting you to not rest, then it only gives you story if you rest. So... It's weird.

I was thinking here primarily of food, yes. The thing you use your food for, is the thing that make the food spoil.

As far as consumables go, I see simpler solution: streamline and limit inventory capacity, no send to stash. Tweak things enough, and people will end up selling stuff they are unlikely to use and keep things they are likely to use. Once they understand that they can carry only that many potions,scrolls etc. they shouid be more likely to use or sell spare items rather then leaving stuff on the ground. At least that generally what works for me.

And if player will have to choose what to carry in each playthrough, that only enhances uniquness of each playthrough. Maybe even character build choices wouldn't feel like wasted choice. I have Speaking wth Animals? Cool, I can sell the potions and carry something more useful to me instead.

That is probably not a realistic option, though - to achieve a good balance with such system the game would require a careful and deliberate design, and it is just not something I expect from BG3 at this point.

Do i remember something incorectly, or is thas true during your first rest only?
And only if Gale or Lae'zel arent present in your camp?

I would swear that otherwise they both (read as: any of them) tell you right there, that you *should* allready show first symptoms ... wich isnt happening.

Yes. I went over it before further up. People tell you, "You should be changing. But you're not. But you know. You could start changing at ANY moment." Everyone, Gale, Lae'zel, Nettie, the Hag, Omeluum, the elf guy in front of the mirror, they all tell you that at any time and at any place you are likely going to turn into a mind flayer and kill everyone you know including all your friends. Again, that's why Nettie gives you the wyvern poison, so that once you start to show the first signs of changing, you'll kill yourself. Omeluum gives you the ring as a way to help you control the tadpole so you might not turn as quickly. The whole story is geared towards "You have a tadpole and may turn at any moment."

And again, you have a needle-toothed monster worm-thing in your head that you are told will eat your brains. Are you REALLY going to rest comfortably... EVER?

Bottom line: The story says, "Don't rest if you can help it." If you don't long rest, you use items like scrolls and potions, making them valuable and important as well as short rests, making them valuable and important. However, the game then has characters prompt you to long rest frequently by having them say stuff like, "Gosh I'm tired. Let's call it a day." The game also has story triggers only when you long rest, like Raphael showing up at your camp and Gale having various dialogues, and Astarion's reveal and various dialogues, and Wyll's dialogues, and Lae'zel's dialogues, and several Shadowheart dialogues. So the game WANTS you to long rest in spite of the story and mechanics being against long rest. That is my point.

And all I'm saying is that I'd prefer the approach of having story consequences when you long rest too much. That is my preference. My second preference is what I posted with food supplies, spoiling food supplies, use of Survival skill, etc.

I just want things in the game to have value and importance. As it stands, we have way too much food, potions, scrolls, etc. and no real need for any of them because in order to enjoy dialogue and story we need to long rest all the time and therefore don't need all that stuff. No limits at all means no need for all that stuff and no need for Short rests. And it goes completely against the story.

Ragzlin's got nothing on me. He should come raid my treasure pile instead of me raiding his



To be fair though I don't see anything wrong with this picture. I love looting and accumulation in games, especially seeing how much I've obtained since the start of the game. Naturally this isn't even remotely a close representation of all the items I have in my chest. But I honestly love it. If nothing else it serves as a cosmetic decoration.

If I were to look at this as a problem, I'd look within myself for not using these items. Maybe when and if they release harder difficulties I might actually start to, but for now there's no need.

Sure, removing "send to stash" would limit hoarding and encourage use of items, but OP's suggestion also discourages long resting because the more you long rest, the quicker your consumables will expire. The fact that it's more complicated is a feature, not a bug. Again, I think there are better ways of discouraging long resting (companions disapprove of wasting time, events in the world progress, limited amount of food) but consumables expiring (on the scale of like 5+ days, not only 1 or 2) isn't absolutely terrible imo.

That said, I also agree with streamlining practically everything about inventory management in BG3, and I also don't have much faith in Larian to have that careful and deliberate design.

Looks perfect to me!🐉🐉🐉

Sorry ... but i cant really agree with your interpretation:
Gale
Lae'zel
Sadly the "newest" video i found for Nettie is patch 4 ... and they changed that conversation drasticaly later.
She is fitting your description tho ... except she is talking about regular ceremorphosis, and admits herself that she have litteraly no idea what is going on with you. :-/

As for the Hag and Omeluum ... you meet those much later ... i believe by that time your character should allready made his mind about their situation.

Me? Never ...
But my characters? Yup, certainly ... for various reasons.

Thats the thing ... i dont think it does. :-/
Dont get me wrong here tho, i dont say it impossible to get this impression, its certainly one of several options ...
But, when you say it like this, it seems to me as if that would be the only way to interpret our situation ... and THAT is what i disagree with.

The only example that is really pushing this way is Shadowheart questioning if resting is good idea (even tho she herself just few seconds earlier was complaining that she is tired and need to rest) ...
But then, she questions litteraly everything ... aswell as pushing you to try any and every possibility to heal, while she stay safe and well behind observing (d)effects of your effort.
> Aka not exactly the kind of person i would like to advice me about my health.

And maybe Lae'zel ... but she on the other hand seems to be more concerned about following her doctrine as litteraly as she can than anything else.
So again, i dont say she dont know her stuff ... obviously she learned thoroughly and devotedly ... but thats what makes me question her knowledge ... she could aswell simply thoroughly and devotedly learn lies Githyanki are telling their young, so they dont need to hunt them in the wild, once something get wrong.
And if i would metagame ... this was also confrimmed by Kithrak himself ...
In the past, he even said "why the truth must be so bitter ... only in death infected are puryfied" but this was changed for some reason.

Personaly i would give +1 to both ...
But we allready talked about this ... well, more than once.