Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Instead of Nothing, Something with Class and Subclass features

So sometimes I have noticed in this game, when the developers cant think of a way to translate a rolepalying ability from a class into a mechanic... they just... include nothing. Two big examples spring to mind, and I am going to give ideas on how to rectify these.

* For druids, there is no good way of translating "Druidic" as a class feature into game mechanics, the only real implementation of this is druid reactivity in dialogue, but all classes get specialized reactivity.... - So how do you fix this? Easy, instead of druidic... Druids get the ability to speak with animals... ALWAYS... at all times, no if, ands, or buts... no spells, no concentration, no need to wildshape. So why this? It leans heavily into the roleplay fantasy of playing a druid, provides a consistant way of interacting with the natural world... and provides no real bonuses in combat. Something people may view as overpowered in the base game, in a video game is just a fun little neat thing for druids to be able to do, that other classes and characters can achieve in more resource intense ways.

* For Great Old One Warlocks, they completely lack their telepathic abilities - This is a big deal feature, how do you fix this... let them cast Detect Thoughts at will as a cantrip, again this does not effect the balance of combat, and is purely a roleplaying and story power, that other classes can already do in more resource intense ways... Simple as that. It sounds overpowered on paper, but it really isnt... it just is something to make the great old one warlock a little more special.

Whenever the developers have to cut a power, or ability, or whatever, from a class because it is purely a roleplaying ability in the base game. They best look at the abilities they have in the game for characters to effect the story, and figure out ways to incorporate something similar

Im sure there are other examples, and will probably be more in the future.

Remember dev's you are making a video game, not a TTRPG, sometimes the balance is going to be different.

+1 If an aspect of a class is removed entirely, I'd rather fudge the rules a bit to make them a little bit more different and fun.

+1
Same with races.
For example, High elves are supposed to know one extra language as a racial feature. This wasn't translated into the game (I can understand) but there's nothing to replace that at all. I'm sure there are other cases like this but that was the one at the top of my head.

I like that idea. Druid was my favorite class archetype. They were really cool pretty cool in BG1, but then in BG2 they got short shrift, since their stronghold was basically a one off. The Lion stone was cool there and all, but I wanted some kind of epic Moot and stuff that delved into Ogham cipher. Establishing a new Grove and recruiting animals to defend it, stuff of that sort. Creating a Circle, becoming an Arch Druid or even the Grand Druid of all Faerun and then choosing a successor from among a few choices (with consequences there) and afterwards joining a Hierophant style secret mission to save the world. The whole idea of Druidic as a secret language or secret society isn't very well tapped into. But I was actually pretty pleased to see how much attention BG3 has given already to the Class/Type. I really hope it's not just an Act 1 one off, but that everything that happens at the grove will have rippling effects into the endgame, with more stuff to come along the same themes with the Shadowdruids and such.

A campaign with a good Druid/Ranger theme always has some staying power for me, and replay cause it rewards the player really exploring the environments. Also just the tracking and ability to move through brambles and thorns, I wish that was more of an exploration element. Like were a druid could walk through terrain where others can't, or maybe just cross some water or through hidden rocks. I liked that they at least gave it a narrative treatment, with the ritual going down, but it would be cool to have stuff that is more exploration oriented and gameful, instead of just like a plot beat. I agree with the idea there to do the animal talking thing, cause it's like if they can't pull all the other stuff off, at least it makes for nice something. Rather than nothing, as you say hehe.

Same stuff above mentioned re high elves. Its very thematic to have the races that live long with access to secret speak, but that doesn't come into the game all that much, except for Lae'zels Gith one liners, which I like a lot haha. I think they could probably have done a sort of gibberish with subtitles for some things, and then you could maybe do some code type thing, where if the player is fluent they get all the info, but if only have a passing or basic knowledge some stuff can't be deciphered. Or like just having more opportunities to do the Goonies Latin translation style moments hehe. Anyhow, good call!

Agree with the idea ...

Cant really say i agree with provided examples tho ... especialy Druid one (warlock seems allright) ...
I mean, druid have spell with exactly that function in their spell list ... what would be its purpose if they would speak with animals naturaly? O_o

You free up a spell slot

Not that useful in BG3 with how memorisation and rests currently works but yeah...pretty much that.

You are describing function of this added feature ... wich should be obvious btw ...
Im asking about the spell.

I mean ... am i the only one who feels its a little strange?
Like "hey, you just decided to be a Druid ... goood, now let me teach you *a spell* that will cost you spellslots, and will take place in your prepared spells, wich will do litteraly exactly the same thing you can do naturally for free and without caring about litteraly any other rule apply to this spell" ...
My question is: Why would any Druid learn that?

you free up a prepared spell, since druids need it prepared to use it at all.

My answer to this question, is it would only exist on the druid spell list for the sake of feats.

what about when a character turns into a Druid from something else... for example at level 4 Shadowheart unlocks Druid to get [i think] 1 spell and 2 cantrips so does she now just know how to speak rabit or goldfish without casting the spell?

For your druid example i had 30 speak to animals potions and i used max 10 if that. i guess that would be enough to speak to all the animals in full game anyway. In full game i'll never try to get that feature again because they give it out in a consumable form. Just shows how unlimited vendor supplies effect the game on so many levels.

So class feature becomes classless. Not to mention the whole animal talk is just a few extra lines that don't do much in the end. LIke the camp pets you can get those just fine without it and it's the same thing with everything.

Even if i don't bother with speak to animals at all, i could do the whole playthrough without missing much just some fluf lines, if EA is to go by.
Right now it's just extra checks to pass something easier. But there are planty of other ways to get the same result all leading to the 3 basic options.

You know those variations Larian keeps talking about. Sadly most of the time it doesn't do much. Even the class dialogue choices, can all be done by anyone by picking one of the other options, you have multiple to chose from for every one of the 3 things... Kill, Don't kill and on few occasions a thrid option that actullty does something roleplaying and quest wise, but it's the same no matter what check - dialogue you use. As a side note i wish there was more of those third options way way more, those are great.


Anyway. Larian is clearly giving players all the options, agency all the time no matter what class you are playing.
Everyone can do anything at anytime, you are never locked out of anything. So good luck with this class features.

Fighters can do magice more or less the same as any caster and vice versa especially in dialogues anyone can talk to dead... Anyone can use scrolls anyone can use same consumables. Some times i think all the choices are just placiebo. Feels like i could blindly pick a class, pick a bow, dip it and do the whole game without even bothering with class features at all.

Thats the point ...

Maybe it seemed to you that you added something to druids ...
While actualy you took things away from them. :-/

Thats what im trying to tell you ...
Changes that makes other parts of class meaningless are not in their interest. :-/

Well, with wizards learning everything, potions and scrolls abundant- the Druid special ability really isn’t so special anymore. So, giving it as a cantrips would in my opinion be a good trade off. Still have to cast it and it stays in the spell slot. I will more than likely mod it myself if it isn’t done. I have played mainly Druids from 2E.

As for the Ussnorwqy’s comment above, it may appear instant in our eyes, but if Shadowheart does multi in to a Druid it’s understood that during down time and “off screen” time she has been praying, studying, etc. The moment she levels into one, is the culmination of her change of heart and acceptance by her new patron who grants her those powers.