Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General Transmogrification

I have find out lately that i enjoy creating polls (despite the fact that this forum isnt exactly friendly around that function) and read other people toughts ...
So here is another one!

I would like to know your thoughts about Transmogrification ... i hope i didnt left out any important option.
And you can choose from:

1) Option to recreate item as a whole.
Basicaly this would mean that if you really like enchantment of any item, you can create different item with that enchantment that would suit you better.

2 Examples:
- If you really like Sword of Justice ... but your character strictly uses Morningstar and Shield for w/e reason ... you would be able to change Sword of Justice into Morningstar.
- If you really like Blazer of Benevolence but you wish to use Medium Amor with your Bard ... you could change it into Medium Amor.
Teoreticaly you should be able to change that armor into boots ... but i would rather not go that way, that is path to madness.

Yes, im aware that this would mean HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE amount of work and would cause SEEEEEEEEEEEERIOUS problems with ballance ...
Aswell as im sure and aware that some of you would point this out anyway.
And that this is kinda "beyond" therms of transmogrification ... but i wanted to include it anyway, just to see if this would actualy be someones prefference.

2) Just visuals, without restrictions.
Basicaly regular transmogrification as we know it.
Except it would still allow us to *visualy* wield any item we would wish ...

2 Examples:
- If you really like Sword of Justice ... but your character strictly uses Morningstar for w/e reason ... you would be able to change VISUALY Sword of Justice into Morningstar ... sadly no shield in this case tho, since your other hand is "actualy" still occupied with the sword, it just dont seem that way ... and yes, your Morningstar would still give 2d6Slashing damage, even tho its utterly nonsence.
- If you really like Blazer of Benevolence but you wish to use Medium Amor with your Bard ... you could make it look like Medium Amor.

Yes i know it may be confusing that i used the exactly same example, but if you read thoroughly, i believe the difference is obvious.

3) Just visuals, with some restrictions.
Basicaly regular transmogrification as we know it ... in fairly serius games, or as it was in WoW until recent changes.

Meaning basicaly just same type to same type ...
2H Weapon > 2H Weapon ...
1H Weapon > 1H Weapon ...
Heavy armor > Heavy armor ...
Medium armor > Medium armor ...
Clothing > Clothing
Etc.

//Edit:

Lets say you wish to transmog Sword of Justice ...
But with this option its only model change ... so your Battleaxe (wielded in both hands) / Glaive / Greataxe / Greatclub / other Greatsword / Longsword (wielded in both hands) / Maul / Pike / Quarterstaff (wielded in both hands) / Spear / Pitchfork / Trident / Warhammer ... would still give 2d6 Slashing damage, as Greatsword normally do ... aswell as provide exactly the same weapon manouvers (or w/e Larian calls that weapon attacks) Greatsword do.

Edit //

4) Just visuals, with strict restrictions.
Basicaly regular transmogrification as we know it ... in more serius games, or exactly as it started in WoW all those years ago.
(Since WoW is many things, but certainly not "serious" game ... not anymore, and not in mine eyes at least.)

Meaning exactly same type of item into another example of that exactly same type:
2H Swords > 2H Swords
2H Axes > 2H Axes
1H Maces > 1H Maces
Medium armor > Medium armor
Clothing > Clothing
Etc.

//Edit:

Lets say you wish to transmog Sword of Justice ...
With this option it can take form of:
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Greatsword
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Greatsword++1 (wich is Sword of Justice default skin if im not wrong)
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Everburn+Blade
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Sussur+Greatsword (i have the feeling that this one is aswell just Greatsword +1 skin)
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Githyanki+Greatsword

But no Battleaxe (wielded in both hands) / Glaive / Greataxe / Greatclub / Longsword (wielded in both hands) / Maul / Pike / Quarterstaff (wielded in both hands) / Spear / Pitchfork / Trident / Warhammer

Edit. //

5) Dont care.
I wanted to include this option for people who have no strong opinion on the matter one way or the other ... but wanted to participiate.

6) I dont want to use Transmogrification at all.
This option is i hope speaking for itself ...

Its for people who dont really care (as much as those abowe) but allready know that no matter the implementation, they will allways look like they are wearing what they are wearing, bcs that is the way they like it.

7) I dont want ANYBODY to use Transmogrification at all.
And this option ...
Is something i quite honestly REALLY hope will get 0 votes, or that all votes here will be trolling and not meaned seriously ...

Bcs aswell as in many other cases, i believe that this particular mechanic is something you dont even notice exists, as long as you dont use it yourself.

---

And thats it from me for now.
Looking forward for both your wotes, and comentaries if you wish to explain your opinion futher.

Oh and for the record:
My vote is obviously 2.
I will probably never ever make my fullplate amor look like robe ... or my 2h sword like walking stick ... or vice versa.

But i kinda like that i could if i wish to.

So what would you preffer? single choice
	Complete rework of item > basicaly enchantment transfer.
	Just visuals ... no restrictions.
	Just visuals ... small restrictions.
	Just visuals ... strong restrictions.
	I dont really care.
	I dont want to use transmogrification at all.
	I dont want ANYBODY to use transmogrification at all.
Votes accepted starting: 14/09/22 10:36 AM
View Results

Good poll Rag!

What is the difference between 3 and 4? Can you pls give me some examples?

I always found transmog tacky in any game. It obfuscates the power level of the character wearing it and it allows for silly things like characters in underwears as powerful as heavy armor users. I like when players follow the same rules as NPCs.

The only form of transmog that I like is dyeing, and alternative armors like Monster Hunter and Elden Ring since it is actually another similar looking armor with some subtle gameplay differences.

@Lotus Noctus
> Sure thing!

Its just matter of how strict restrictions people want ...

Lets say you wear Sword of Justice ... but dont like its model ...

In 3 case you can mog it into any 2H weapon you want ...
But its only model change ... so your Battleaxe (wielded in both hands) / Glaive / Greataxe / Greatclub / other Greatsword / Longsword (wielded in both hands) / Maul / Pike / Quarterstaff (wielded in both hands) / Spear / Pitchfork / Trident / Warhammer ... would still give 2d6 Slashing damage, as Greatsword normally do ... aswell as provide exactly the same weapon manouvers (or w/e Larian calls that weapon attacks) Greatsword do.

In 4 case, rules are more strict, so you can mog it into any 2H Sword you want ...
Meaning:
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Greatsword
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Greatsword++1 (wich is Sword of Justice default skin if im not wrong)
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Everburn+Blade
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Sussur+Greatsword (i have the feeling that this one is aswell just Greatsword +1 skin)
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Githyanki+Greatsword

But no Battleaxe (wielded in both hands) / Glaive / Greataxe / Greatclub / Longsword (wielded in both hands) / Maul / Pike / Quarterstaff (wielded in both hands) / Spear / Pitchfork / Trident / Warhammer

Ahhh yet something quite different than I expected. I had a different guess. In Aion, for example, you could transmog a leather armor into another leather armor, but you couldn't do any dyeing afterwards.... Good thing I asked.

Then I decide for number 4 (and hopefully we can still dye afterwards), because I consider e.g. the Sword of Justice as a unique artifact that was intended to be a sword and not an axe / mace / dagger... That would be too blatant an act for me because of the immersion. This should be reserved for in-game mechanics, if available, e.g. via alteration magic.

https://baldursgate.fandom.com/wiki/Staff_Mace

https://baldursgate.fandom.com/wiki/Staff_Spear

So transmog in a limited way is okay for me.

I'm not sure I understand the difference between "Just visuals ... small restrictions" and "Just visuals ... strong restrictions"

I've picked "Just visuals ... small restrictions".

What I have in mind :
The player will be allowed to merge two items of the same type together. One would define the "skin", the other one would define the stats. Both items are "destroyed" to create a new one.

This could be done to all weapons and wearable equipment. But again, the "transmogrification" could only be done between items of the same type (like a 2H Weapon with another 2H Weapon).

EDIT: I saw the response explaining the difference between 3. and 4. afterward.
I can't change my answer but I would change it to "Just visuals ... strong restrictions" if I could.

That's correct. At this point we should perhaps be aware about the possibility to "reskin". I think it should be possible.

In other words, if I use SH armor as a "skin" and later find better armor that I want to have SH skin on again, then this should be possible. The first use should result in a template for future applications, so to speak.

Otherwise, the use of transmogrification would be very modest, since the best armor is likely to be found very late in the game.

Same. If I planned to play it multiplayer I would vote for the last option (what characters wear is a rather key informatrion) but as I see BG3 as mostly a singleplayer experience I voted for 2nd to last option - even if transmog exists, I can just ignore it. Even if it were implemented going any lighter then option 4 just sounds silly to me.

Added that to OP.
Thanks for poiting that out!

I voted for just visuals no restrictions, but any of the three “just visual” options would work for me!😊 I love the Druid starter armor, for example, and would like to be able to keep that look as I get armor with better stats.

Exactly!
The problem between 3 and 4 appears, if your character change their equipment prefferences during the adventure ...

Lets say that you want Lae'zel (or Shadowheart, dont really matter) to wear their armor through whole adventure, k?
Roleplay perspective is quite obvious ... Githyanki are proud people, who believes that all they do is allready prime example of perfectionism > therefore this particular Lae'zel would have very little reasons to wear anything except Githyanki gear and weapons ...
Feel free to invent any other headcannon you wish for any other companion you wish ... the point is:
You want them to keep *this* they just have.

Now ...
If Transmog would be created as described in 3 ...
No matter the gear, Lae'zel would still wear Githyanki Half-Plate and Githyanki Longsword, or Greatsword ... depending on your prefferences.
Bcs even if you find the best Heavy Armor in the world ... no matter, it still can be transmoged into Medium Armor ...
And if some boss drops supersweet Axe, or Mace ... no matter, it still can be transmoged into Greatsword, or Longswrod, depending on your prefferences.

If Transmog would be created as described in 4 tho ...
In order to keep Lae'zel in Githyanki Half-plate and swinging around with Githyanki Longsword, or Greatsword ... you would be forced to only use Medium armor and Longsword, or Greatsword with her.

It may not be the problem really ...
We dont know what Artefacts have Larian prepared for us ... and concidering EA, it seems quite likely that we will have more than enough artefacts to choose from.

But, to be quite honest ... to me it would seem pretty frustrating to be forced to choose between my roleplay of proud (read as: xenophobic as hells) Githyanki who only uses Githyanki equipment ... or best gear in game. :-/

I voted "just visual, strong restrictions" ("transmog of same item type" might have been a better way to phrase that if I'm understanding what you were going for).

I dont want ANYBODY to use transmogrification at all.

I also don't want to be able to change height, skin tone, eye color, etc. after character creation.

I also don't want to be able to choose a certain race (a human, for example), but make the character look like an elf.

I also don't want to be able to transmogrify spells - to cast fireball but make it look like a ball of ice (unless it's casted using transmuted spell metamagic, in which case I'm ok with changing the color - but not with being able to choose).


And so on.

- But wait, if you don't like it personally, just don't use it, why should other people not have something they want?

- Because Larian doesn't have infinite resources. I don't want them to spend them on things I don't want to see in the game.

I don't want anyone using it either. I prefer that Larian focus on making the armor and weapons competitive with one another instead of using a bandaid that allows players to have the best stats on whatever look.

Rather, I prefer that Larian make good stats and attractive items that compete with one anther for player attention.

I also think it's important to know what someone else is using by looking at it.

Then it may please you both that this topic is not placed in "suggestions and feedback" section of the forum, nor it contains any suggestion.
Same as with other polls i created lately and put them all in "general discusion" ... its just a survey, im simply curious about people opinions.

Anyway, resources are certainly perfectly valid and aplicable excuse, that i totally accept.

Why i said excuse?
Well, im glad i can pretend you asked.

Its simple, based on what is happening in last two years, it seems like Larian dont give a damn about what we want them to focus on, and they use their own heads instead.
(i know its shocking theese days, but such people apparently still exist)

Its true that i hardly agree with all their decisions ... few examples:
- Learning and preparing spells was suggested about a month after EA started ... in VERY SIMMILAR way they finaly implemented it now ... therefore everything we had until now was basicaly wasted.
- Decision of giving "the Box" to Shadowheart made lots of permutatinos, that was completely unnecesary ... therefore all time and resources spend on that was wasted, since by Swen own words "they may still change it".
- Giving us voiced dialogues was probably calculated risk, but voicing is quite expensive ... and once it is done, not many companies wish to completely rework dialogues ... if we would get unvoiced dialogues, many people would probably get pissed, but it would allow more effective way to use resources.
- etc, etc ...

Anyway im not leading the company (Shocking, huh? ), Swen do ... so i can dislike his decisions, i can disagree with his decisions ... and that is about all i can do.

This is interesting tho ...
Why?

I mean, i wouldnt expect that NPCs would transmog their gear.
I would totally get it in PvP ... you dont really want to prepare for fight with Wizard, only to find out that he is actualy transmogrified Barbarian.
But since we can only play co-op ... and meaning of that shortcut is "cooperation" ... wich requires comunication, so people should be able to actualy indeed *know* what someone else is using ...

So ... just why?

I think transmogrification the way it is typically used in games serves as a replacement for visual aesthetic progression in stages. I don't dig that, because then it feels like the devs are just ceding this ground entirely to the player's whims, instead of using it as a reward, with the result that the game then doesn't have any real aesthetic progression. You just look however you want, and appearance becomes static and doesn't progress.

I'll use an example with clothing and armor to explain what I would prefer.

For regular clothing and non-enchanted armor, I would like to be able to choose from a number of basic options with a fair bit of variety there, so rather than 1 suit of chainmail with 1 look, there might be a dozen. For clothing there might be 100 options.

For armor perhaps I can dye the cloth components or alter the colors there, but the leather and metal components/colors can't be changed. So there is a limit on how far I can push my look. I can get closer to my ideal, but not the whole way.

Now I find a basic +1 enchanted version of the same. Here there is some limited transmog allowed for certain elements, making the +1 enchanted version inherently more exciting than their non enchanted equivalents, and so also simpler to recognize, but again with an upward limit on far I can push it.

Much later I find a +2 enchanted version, with a unique Name. Here I should be able to get even closer to my desired look somehow, than I could with the +1 version. Perhaps here it becomes possible to change the tint of the metal or select a faint colored glow. Perhaps I get to make that choice initially, but then it's set for the duration, at least until I find another set of armor lol.

Typically this not how things work in such games. The higher the enchantment, the more specific and unchanging the look becomes, or else it's anything goes the whole time, but I think it should be the opposite. Meaning that by the time I get to those higher levels of enchantment +2 my freedom to customize the aesthetics should increase rather than decrease. And it should be possible to tell at a glance that someone is wearing better gear of that sort, because it looks cooler and offers more combinations in that way.

What I don't like is a generic look for all regular and enchanted equipment. You know, where chainmail +1 is always tinted blue and you know it's chainmail +1 because of that blue tint. Or chainmail +2 always has a bunch of gold everywhere, and so the gold is how we know it's +2 chainmail rather some expensive but non enchanted Chainmail. To me that just isn't very exciting. If want to be a Green Knight, I should be able to achieve that in some way, but with a sense of progression. I also don't want to become 'The Green Knight' simply because the enchanted armor I just found makes that my only option and forces that on me.

Regarding Enchantment, a much more engaging and satisfying approach would be to include an actual Enchanting mechanic that is part of the gameplay. So perhaps instead of just finding the full suit of armor, I find some special element which (with the proper magic) can change my suit of non-enchanted mail into a +1 version. And when that occurs I get to choose a special tint that makes the item more unique. Stuff of that sort.

I am pretty disappointed right now with what's on offer both at the start and the finish. I feel they are taking the approach where all armor of a given type/tier of enchantment will always look the same, and I find that boring. It would be different if I was totally blown back and amazed by the artwork in every instance, but I'm not, and I'm super picky with this stuff. If Full Platemail means gold and pink and sparkly with giant pauldrons, I won't be wearing it, even if the stats are killer and it's the best armor in the game. If it's uglier to me than regular half-plate it's going to feel like a step down and a total bummer. So in that sense I'm for some degree of transmog sure, if the options otherwise just kinda suck, but I also don't want them to just give me everything at the outset either. Rather I want pacing and rewards at regular intervals, and for the game to cultivate a sense of aesthetic progression, which to me is actually more important than the given stats.

Agreed ...
But dying is not what we are talking about here.

Transmogrification is more about taking "basic model" of something else.

I mean, since you are not first mentioning it ...
It may be worth to mention that dying fully depends on that, if Larian allows it in the first place ... i mean In short ... if base item will be collorable ... i see no reason why tranmogrificated item wouldnt be.

Again agreeed ...
But again, not exactly the point here. :-/

This is actualy good ... even tho still slightly off ... point!

So far we only discuised rules for transmogrifying ...
Rules for obtaining models i completely forget. O_o

I gues it could affect someone decision ...
Personaly i would certainly preffer the way MelivySilverRoot described abowe ... you have two items, one provide model, another provide stats (all of them, no picking what suits you here ) ... both are destroyed and you receive new one, containing what you picked from each.

Yeah I gather that you mean basically the WoW version of this.

I'll admit Transmogrify is not my favorite term, both on account of its uncertain etymology (a coy elision of the words 'modify' and 'grotesque' basically, with the prefix 'trans' being rather reduntant there) and also it's pretty uncommon usage in normal language. It's just one of those words that instantly requires a definition if you're not a World of Warcraft player, though I guess it's assumed everyone is heheh. The term implies not just a transformation but also particularly weird or curious or nonsensical sort of transformation.

I suppose what I'm after is something rather more straightforward. Like changing the ridiculously large pauldrons on one set of Platemail, into smaller pauldrons from a suit of Platemail I like more, or sensible stuff of that sort. Whereas transmogrify would be like changing my Platemail into Chaimail, or into a feather cap, or pair of pantaloons or whatever hehe. I guess I can blame Blizzard for that one.

I voted for option 3, since it seemed to sound a bit more like what I wanted, but maybe I'm more option 6 and just don't really realize it lol. My ideal would have enough variety in the defaults that such a thing wouldn't be necessary in the first place, but somehow I doubt that's what I'll get, so I'd lean towards something in that case, but with strong restrictions.

I've never been a fan of MMOs, so I don't have much experiencewith Transmog systems. The first time I encountered one actually was in Assassin's Creed Odyssey. And I LOVED it instantly there. It let me make my Kassandra look how I wanted her to. There was a particular armor set that I really liked for aesthetic and story reasons, and instead of having to leave it behind when its stats no longer kept up with my level, I was able to keep it around longer. I think this sort of system provides a genuine roleplay avenue in the form of giving our character their own signature look and allowing changes to feel a bit more like in-story decisions.

I've never really LIKED the constant changing of equipment in crpgs. Usually it's just a neutral fact of things, but I hate when a companion character starts with a unique armor set but then I have to get rid of it because it's all too weak. I love when games allow characters, in particular companions, to keep their unique style. In Dragon Age: Inquisition, I was delighted that companions basically had two unique outfit styles thatthey could alternate between, and that our Inquisitor was also the same in that regard. So yeah, that's why I support a transmog system.

I was torn appart to be honest ...

At one side, i really liked that any and every companion from my party have his own style that they keep ... that was cool.

On the other hand tho, i HATE with all my heart, soul, being, and everything else ... when armors are changing by themselves, prime example i used for this phenomen was Diablo II ... your Barbarian wears a chainmail, it become just a loincloth and two leather belts across the chest ... your Paladin equips exactly the same item, it becomes fullplated armor ... your Sorceress equips exactly the same item, its a robe now. O_o
Same goes in DA:I ... even tho not "as" extreme, since there are at least Heavy / Medium Armor and Clothing ... Ironbull have many armors just some (often leather) chestplate, with really loose pants ... while Blackwall turns it into regular (allways metalic) plate armor. :-/

Nah, hate this ...
Chainmail is chainmail it allways was chainmail and its allways supposed to be chainmail ...
UNLESS player decided that he no longer want it to be chainmail. :P

Therefore in my ideal world, every armor would have its own style and look ... that would be fix, and unchangable (except transmog :P ) ...
And then, as you would equip the same armor to different companions, you would still see *that* armor ... but you would also see various trinkets, ornaments, and features they modified it with, to make it fit them better.