Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Mega-threads and Guides Day/Night Cycle

That's true, my bad. I saw the spoiler didn't read anything below it. My bad!

I disagree with the premise that location-dependent time flow is necessary to support map design.

First of all, I don't think that such time scales need to be so highly different. IF the time scales do *need* to be different, then a factor of 2 or 3 is perfectly fine. Everything does not need to be modeled exactly perfectly; don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

Second, I don't think times scales need to be different at all. It's not needed. Use a simpler system that is mostly immersive, rather than an incredibly complex system that might be more immersive on its own, but not necessarily when taken into account map size.

Third, why would the game work such that spending like 5 minutes in the Windmill lead to 6 hours??? You'd be inside a building - a dedicated area with no access to the outside roads - so clearly the game time should be passing much more slowly. 5 minutes in the Windmill should be like 30 minutes in-game, max. Similarly, the Blacksmith's basement, Zevlor's Cave, and talking to Nettie and Kagha are all self-contained zones and shouldn't have significantly sped-up time progression. Game time could even stop during dialogue for further time consistency.

tl;dr: I think you're vastly overcomplicating a proposed time progression system, in such a way that would generate lots of unnecessary problems. Also, you're exaggerating those problems to make them seem worse than they are.

Well i disagree with premise that you need time flow in the first place.

Since i played Dragon Age: Origins, im perfectly fine with static time ingame, my adventures taking unspecified amount of time, that between two long rests give together 24h.
Its not hard concept to grasp, and it suits me.

BUT!
If there should be some flow ... then yes, it needs to reflect the world.

There is also another problem and that is we are in control of time by resting ...
I dunno how about you, but if my group rests 4 times during travel from Grove to the Waukeen's Rest ... im totally willing to pretend it took them 4 days to get back, rather than they sprinted so fast so they managed to squeeze 4 days long trip into 1.
But I digress ...

Just take two distances next to each other ... one realy small, and one realy big.
A wall of some house ... and a distance between Grove and Waukeen's Rest.

If you keep those two scales too simmilar to each other ...
You either end up with really small world, or with realy big house (as i stated before).
Now to take it little deeper:
(I was disturbed a lot when i wrote this ... so i cant guarantee that i didnt mess up somewhere)

Exactly my point ...

That is why i said "if you apply consistent time flow" ... consistent time flow = time runs in exactly the same speed no matter where you are.

That is why you would need at least two time flows ... one for outside (and by outside i dont mean Out of Building, but everything that is in between zones like Grove, Willage, Temple, Goblin camp, Swamp, etc.) and one for inside (again those zones, not just houses).

Moving the conversation a bit, because we both are obviously intractable in our opinions about constant time advancement:

DAO's game system didn't rely on taking long rests to restore resources, and so it was more acceptable that day/night passage wasn't an important part of the game. Characters were just assumed to be resting whenever. BG3/5e, however, does explicitly require frequent long rests and so there's more of a need for a more detailed time passage system.

There are many locations/events in DAO which take place at night: e.g., Ostagar and the initial Warden vs Darkspawn battle, the defense against zombies attacking Redcliffe, I think Denerim has some places which take place during night, etc. These experiences vastly improved my immersion in the game. Similarly, such an inclusion of night-time in BG3 would improve immersion. There are many possible implementations, including the method (similar-ish to DAO) of having time progress via clicking the short-rest and/or "wait for nightfall" button. The key point, to me, is that night should exist outside of our base camp, so that we can experience at least some of the world during night-time.

As long as we can agree on definition, any other differences are acceptable to me.

And feel free to corect me, but since i keep using the word "flow" and you are keep using word "passage" ... im not quite sure if we are on the same ship there. O_o
So ... just to be clear.

Time Flow in my vocabulary is something that goes on and on, basicaly that cant be stopped (except pause wich would this game certainly needed if flow would be implemented, curently it dont in my opinion) ... transcription between real time and ingame time ...
Meaning: You play during ingame day, go afk for some time, return during ingame night.

Time Passage tho is in my vocabulary ... well, basicaly any feeling that time actualy exists.
(I gived up, i tryed 6 times to reformulate this sentence so Google translator can translate it properly, but every single time it ended with some bullshit. )
Meaning: Basicaly even what we have right now, since every Long Rest is "end of the day".

Actualy now, when i think about it DA:O was bad example ... that game is just set of small zones tied together, time cant really flow there ...
Except Orzamar part that one is huge (thank Gods), where i every time totally loose sense of time tho.
Just by the way ... that is how i think Baldur's Gate III. would lookalike if our curent computers wouldnt be able to deal with so big map ... and honestly, it have its benefits. :-/

Dragon Age: Inquisition would be a lot (even tho still not quite there) better example, since there you have semi-open world map, wich is certainly closer to our curent situation.
And time also dont visibly move there: maps that are in day are in day no matter how much time you spend there ... maps that were created for night have endless night.
Thats what i meaned.

In Dragon Age time dont flow ... it moves forward tho (obviously ) through events that are happening, stories that you engage, etc.

Its not so different from Baldur's Gate III. in my opinion ... yes, we stagnate in EA bcs its end works like a concrete wall ...
But even tho sun is static on the sky, just as it is in Dragon Age, i have feeling that time is moving as long as i have some goal (for example save Halsin) before me ...
Once that point is reachet tho, and he simply sends me to the Underdark ... main story stops and that is problem (wich will fix itself in full release ) bcs from that point on, we have nothing to chase, so we simply wander without goal.

Oh im quite sure we will have something simmilar here ... even tho maps in BG-3 are certainly a lot biger than DA:O, so i doubt it would go whole to night mode ...
But i would be really confused if Shadowcursed lands wouldnt be looking as if they were in endless night ... that intro we got with soldier transforming into Mind Flayer also showed us darkened sky, so that is also possibility ...

But since we are so far only in first map during EA, to using DA:O as an analogy we didnt even get out of our Origin story.

Oh yes, definietly!

Recent post has kindled my desire for Day/Night again. PLEASE, Larian. It would make this game SO cool.

And Sunlight Sensitivity so Drow and other similar races would be encouraged to travel by night.

Playing KOTOR for the first time right now on mobile and the game also doesn't have a D/N feature but it doesn't bother me as much and I think it's because whenever you visit your 'camp' (apartment or space ship, no spoilers please just arrived at the jedi academy on the 2nd planet) the game doesn't tell you time passes, you simply visit another place that is also frozen in time. BG3 on the other hand constantly reminds you of the night while simultaneously refusing to show you or allow you to experience the night. I think if there wasn't this contradiction I would care a lot less. Anyway, deeply disappointing that probably we won't have a D/N, I hope they come up with some creative solutions later on in the game however. E.g. they could give you a choice when transitioning to a certain area if you would want to go during the day or the night, each giving advantage or disadvantage to certain classes/races... ?

I would NEVER spoil KOTOR for someone. Best game EVER!

Anyway. What is immersive in an RPG isn't so much that as I travel it suddenly turns to night. Actually, games that do that are very unimmersive to me. I don't like RPGs that have sped up time.

The difference between the two games is that D&D requires time because to heal you often need to rest for X hours. A short rest should cause an hour or 2 to pass. A long rest is taking the rest of the day off. Also, in D&D, you have character races that are influenced by sun versus dark, such as Drow and duergar. So having them run around in the broad daylight is weird based on established lore.

I'd really like a Time Passage button, a Day/Night button. That would fix the whole thing for me. But if not, I'll live with it as is. Chances are, they aren't focusing on Day/Night because later levels won't need it. So why do a ton of work for less than 25% of the game? The rest of the game you'll be in sunless dungeons and Shadow Cursed lands. You might get to BG, lol, but it'll probably be enshrouded in darkness all the time.

I’m definitely with you there. In fact, I’m not sure I’ve played a game that has done day/night cycles really well, though I’ve played some that have done a few nice things with them. Athkatla at night in BG2 being one of the best examples.

I think if a day/night cycle were designed into a game from the ground up, it could potentially be great. But I suspect half-arsing one would be worse than not having one at all, which is why it’s not something I’d agitate for in BG3 at this point.

But I do hope that Larian will find a convincing way to have some missions take place at night later on. We’ve seen with the swamp that they can do different things with the same map if they want to, so it looks as though they could have night fall if it were significant to a quest.

(I’d be all for some drow sunlight sensitivity, though, even if this were just a disadvantage to perception/hit when standing in full light outside, and even if my drow couldn’t do things at night as would be more sensible.)

A day/night cycle isn't important to me, and I don't think it would the game more immersive. Speeding up time just screws with my own sense of time as my characters do things. If anything, it feels less immersive in that regard.

That aside, if I were suggesting a way to do it, I think I'd start with the idea of saying that it gets dark after two short rests and then gets light again after a long rest.

Straightforward. Easy. Makes logical sense. Doesn't have any complications with multiplayer time passage since all players need to agree to rests. Doesn't involve transitions while exploring.

If short rests became more of a thing, where you could also talk to companions for their dialogue/cutscenes (untying cutscenes from long rests), then the natural loading screens/fadeouts of short rests would work very well with transitions from day->night and any affected NPC positions.

Same. Especially when there is no true "pause" screen.

+1

Some have theorized that drow-Tavs don't suffer Sunlight Sensitivity because of the OP tadpoles (like Astarion having less...life threatening weaknessess...as in none). I like that idea but it would be nice to have it explicitly mentioned in game. This could also give a bit more incentive for drows to agree with Astarion (who wants to control the tadpole).

That...is not a terrible idea actually. I would still prefer no day/night cycle at all. But that could be an interesting compromise.

I think if you appear to be a drow, the goblin that speaks to you when you enter the blighted village the first time comments on your being a drow in sunlight, and assumes you’re a true soul because of that. So there’s some implication there that the lack of sensitivity is tadpole-related.

I’m still not convinced though. I had thought drow sunlight sensitivity was a natural adaptation to living in low light in the Underdark, whereas a vampire’s inability to go out in sunlight was more supernatural in origin. Of course, it’s not really possible to say what does and doesn’t make sense for a fantasy tadpole, but somehow the idea of it changing supernatural attributes seems more reasonable to me than changing natural ones.


It sounds as good a way of moving time along as any. But there’s still the question of what happens at night. Unless there are important differences to the world during darkness hours, I personally would not be hugely keen.

Plus, unless you effectively wanted to “waste” your second short rest, you’d be forced to spend some time exploring the world during darkness every day, when sensible, non-drow adventurers would be more likely to want to camp for the night.

I don't like the idea of 2 Short rests equal night because then you have no Short rests for night adventuring. Just a simple Day to Night button would work fine, implying your party waits until night to adventure. Then you can go as long as you want, short rest twice, etc, just like during the day. Then, when you long rest, boom. Night camp scenes. You wake up and it's day. Hit the Day to Night button if you want and boom, transition to night.

Has anyone taken into account on how obscurity would play into all this?

Because the Underdark is... well... dark. And obscurity is a serious penalty factor in there, which acts as an advantage for the enemy and a disadvantage for the party. It's basically treated as a hostile environment because of this.

So by having night-time, it would primarily boil down to obscurity battles just like the Underdark does now, which seriously limits certain races/classes without being prepared for it.

Yes.

First of all, it's not necessarily true that darkness is "an advantage for the enemy and a disadvantage for the party." Races that have darkvision would do better at night, which includes many (most) player races. If we ever get a non-tadpole Drow or Vampire (e.g., future companion and/or mercenary) then a night/day system would allow them to excel at night but be hampered during the day. Additionally, players have lots of options for light through torches and spells, some of which can potentially even harm/disorient creatures that spend their entire time in the darkness.

Darkness would also make stealth missions much more thematic for the player. Per 5e RAW, even creatures with darkvision still have Disadvantage on perception checks while in darkness, so many players would actually want the darkness of night for certain sections of the game to make it easier to sneak by enemies. Mechanically, darkness would provide additional options for players, adding to their tookit. This is in addition to all the immersion arguments.

A fantasy rpg without d/n sequense in 2022 is a joke. But then again, it's not like Larian are making a serious game.

It's not like you are making a serious comment either.

Isn't "serious game" a bit of an oxymoron?

To be extra pedantic about it, it kinda isn't : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serious_game

So yeah, Larian isn't making a serious game for sure

To be extra extra pedantic, I wouldn't call that a reliable source.



That being said, I don't mind non-serious games at all. Whatever that means :p

I don't think a "day/night cycle" is a good qualifier on whether the game will be good or not anyway.