Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General The Circlet of Fire

Firbolt only generates one bolt, so a 6th level dragon sorcerer would only deal 2d10+(1*)Cha. Still not insignificant, although probably not worth 2 (3 in BG3) sorcery points. Although, there is no dodge action in BG3, so every other action becomes more appealing...

Warlocks' Eldritch Blast is the only(?) cantrip that generates multiple bolts instead of dealing more damage with a single bolt, which is why the EB + Agonizing Blast combo is so powerful - you deal your Cha mod in additional damage with every blast, practically doubling your damage. So if a Warlock could gain access to Quicken, quickening EB and then casting it normally would be pretty solid.

Ah, yes, my mistake. The damage scales but its still just one attack.

A two level dip in warlock can fix that up fairly easily.

2e Specialty Priests (ref. Faiths & Avatars, Demihuman Deities and Powers & Pantheons) could have been introduced; not only are those (officially published) classes highly flavorful, but they are usually more powerful than the standard Priest.

Yeah no doubt! I mean show me that Priest of Sune! hehe with a badass robe and red tresses - topped with a glorious Circlet of Fire - and suddenly all is forgiven, cause I'm just caught in the mesmer at that point! I really love the presentation of a lot of the AD&D and 2e material, just so much flavor. I think 5e actually has the best art direction since then, but it's hard to top. I think BG3 could do something like this though, as part of Deity Selection and people would kinda flip over it, just to see it visualized so well. Like even if you could do the same thing with elements rather than a full getup (especially for priests) the way they handled Shadowheart's gear, where you get something like the above, but then it also embellishes the standard equipment/kit too. If BG3 pulled that off, I'd be stoked.

ps. to the below - absolutely! haha

Just for the record, I think it's a pretty killer item. Is it OP? Sure, but then again it's just a lot more fun when you have something to work with that goes beyond a +1 here or there. I think BG3 has done a pretty good job creating kickass and memorable items, but I do wonder if they're going to redistribute it all after EA? Cause I can see almost all of this stuff being really entertaining (probably insanely OP there too) but if it was going down more act 2 style instead of at the earliest levels. It'd probably round out a bit better that way. I don't know how linear they're going to go in the end though. I keep hearing that we won't get to return to the earliest areas just based on how they handled other games, but there is a definite BG charm to the prodigal return. I can picture a high entertainment value on the triple fireballs or scorching deathray orbital bombardments, if that happened a little further down the road. Are there any enemies in EA that can't be beaten? I mean like a Drizzt or Elminster, or a location that just scales enemies way too nuts? You know, like if you tried to rob Winthrop and just brought down the murder machine? The Temples and their high priests were always fun that way in BG. They should definitely have a few more of those spots early on, where the player can just get rocked to the ground, and a real challenge even later with the ultimate equipment/class combos, like the stuff JandK mentioned in the OP. There should be at least one encounter that measures up right?

Ah, Sune, goddess of edging ^.^
The only proper priests and clerics of Sune dress themselves in entirely diaphanous attire, to better show off their devotion to beauty within and without. They make for fun characters to play.

Sorry, derail over ^.^

You think so? I find much of 5e's art to be technically solid (certainly consistent to the point of homogeneity), but a bit...cold. Old school art - in the aggregate - was more uneven than modern offerings, yes, but the organic nature/experimentation characteristic of their times produced pieces that impressed more often than fell flat.

Casting two full action spells in a same round is not as powerful as many of you think.
Evoker Wizard has Overchannel that maximizes the damage of a spell = 100% damage value.
Casting two spells in a row = 2 * 50% (average) damage value = 100% damage value.
Two spells can be different for combos and variety, but one maximized spell uses only a single spell slot, so both have pros and cons.
Overchannel is a high level feature, but it is also compatible with Sculpt Spells, allowing to release maximized damage spell that does not hurt allies, while Sorcerer can pick either bonus action cast or Careful Spell and not both.
Overchannel has a health cost (after first usage), Quicken Spell has constant 3 SP cost and reduces / removes possibility to use other class features (spell slot cycle / other Metamagic options).
Evoker can also essentially double damage of Magic Missiles with Empowered Evocation and spam their double cast analogue for single spell slot and with no drawbacks.

What I am leading to is that double full spell cast via Quicken Spell could be kept in the game, as it essentially makes Evoker Wizard and Draconic Sorcerer competitive as blasters at high levels. However, I definitely think that getting 3+ spell casts in one round is too much, so would rather see some restrictions to things like Circlet of Fire instead. For example, Quicken Spell could be usable only once per turn, so that no matter how many bonus actions you get, you can cast only a single quickened spell.

As you mention, Overchannel is a 14th level ability. It is supposed to be crazy powerful. And you can only overchannel 1st through 5th level spells, which at level 14 can be significant damage but won't instakill most enemies of appropriate CR.

Potions of Speed and Quicken Metamagic are acquired at low levels in BG3. Two 3rd level spells (e.g., fireball) against enemies you face at 5th level is much more powerful than a maximized 5th level spell against enemies you face at 14th level.

Empowered Evocation is a 10th level ability, and doubling the damage of magic missile is...fine, but not extremely crazy. A 5th level magic missile will then do 7*(1d4+1+5)=60 points of damage, which is great but not amazing. For comparison, Cone of Cold is AoE that deals 8d8=36 average points of damage on a failed save. So Cone of Cold targeting 3 creatures will do more damage than an Empowered 5th level magic missile.

Quicken is much more powerful (relative to current character level and CR of enemies you'll face) than Overchannel or Empowered Evocation.

What I like about how Larian did Quicken is that it is useful to a sorcerer and involves magic (magic is the reason I am playing a sorcerer!). In RAW, from what people have written, Quicken only seems useful if you go into another class besides sorcerer or want to do something that has nothing to do with magic, such as dodge, dash, etc. To me Larian’s changes are a great improvement over that!!!

Depends ...
There is "usefull" and "usefull" ...

If you wish to play allways the most effective way (and you dont really seem like that kind of player Icelyn, no offence) ... then yes.
But if you dont ... it only reduces your damage outcome ... not even that much if you are Sor-Lock ... i mean Eldrich Blast have some serious potential, for a cantrip. Sure, it would never be as strong as two Fireballs ... not many things would be after all.

But still, especialy on low-mid levels, where we will most likely move through the whole game.

I meant something I could use with the sorcerer class alone if I didn’t want to go into another class.

I can't speak for levels after four, but at the current level cap, I'm okay with being able to cast more than one levelled spell per turn.

To my point of view, an action is an action and a bonus action is a bonus action... and if you're allowed to do something as an action you should be able to do it as an action regardless of how many actions you have.

Same story ...
Except other cantrips suffers more when you miss.

I'm curious as to how you define this.

Okey, but fair warning: My answer may disapoint you.

Its exactly as said.
You concider your options and pick the most effective one.
Not much huh?

It ofcourse can be seen better if you have something to compared it with ...

For example:
I like immersion ... i dont think about wich option would do the most damage, i dont calculate % of sucess, i dont search around with my Misty Stepp prepared to cast where is the most benefitial place to teleport ...

If i decide that my character will be pyroman, i can often end up sending few Firebolts against Tiefling enemies ...
If i decide that my character will be greedy, i never push someone off the cliff ... unless i checked his pockets before, and allready "know" that he have nothing of value on him.
If i decide that my badger will create tunnel to safety, i never even check roofs, or top floors of buildings ... it dont make sense for him to with burrow there, so there is no point ... even tho it would give me better positioning.
Etc.

The problem here is that a quicken that allows you to cast two full spells is so good that it dominates the choice of metamagic. If you can do that then there is pretty much no build where you would ever NOT take quicken.

There should be some hard choices when building a character, and this is a clear no brainer if implemented as Larian has done.

If it is nerfed back to the 5e standard then it won't be useless, but it will also not be the only good pick. Twinned spell, subtle spell (to avoid silence), empower, and careful spell will all be competitive choices.

It sounds like you're just describing your preferred style of playing the game.

When you made this assertion



It sounded like you were claiming to speak authoritatively about some recognized "most effective way to play". Which obviously isn't a thing that could be defined.

I'm guessing something is lost in translation in regards to your use of the word effective. Still not sure where you're coming from or why you chose to characterize Icelyn as a player who doesn't play in the "most effective way" which seems to really mean "the RagnarokCzD way"

I can agree that these are high level feats and they are supposed to be powerful, but Quicken Spell should be as well, especially since Larian increased SP cost. Without Larian's change, I hardly see Draconic Sorcerer competitive with Evoker Wizard at higher levels at nuker role - Evoker has constant, free and more powerful Careful Spell, its saving throw cantrips always deal damage, its Intelligence modifier is applied to all their Evocation spells allowing to use different elements compared to one element empowered spells of Draconic Sorcerer, their Magic Missiles damage is more than doubled, they have Overchannel and access to more spells and possibility to swap them when needed. Against all of that, basic Metamagic options, additional AR (that is covered by Mage Armor for Wizards) and slightly more health pale in comparison.

To keep power balanced at lower and higher levels between Overchannel / Empowered Evocation and Quickened Spell, Quicken Spell could affect levelled spells only starting from level X, so that it is not abusable at lower levels and have a spell level cap similar to Overchannel spell level cap. It could also have increasing SP cost similar to Twinned Spell (so that Twinned Spell can affect 2 targets for 1 spell slot and Quicken Spell can affect 1 target 2 times, but for 2 spell slots, giving both Metamagic options their niches) to keep it from being too much utilied at higher levels and with higher level spells.

Good ...
Thats exactly what i did.

Well ... maybe not defined, certainly not on general level, since effectivity depends on situation ...
But i think there is allways way in every certain situation to concider wich decision will give you most benefits in the end.

But quite honestly i was simply leaning to this forum ideas of effective gameplay ...
There is many people, at least some of them certainly a lot more experienced than me, claiming that nothing have any purpose in this game as long as you can easily push enemies out of the cliff with guaranted sucess, since you were invisible.
Thats an example of effective gameplay.

I believe it was Niara (not sure tho), prime example of person who knows rules for tabletop a LOT better than me ... who said that Quickened spell is often used in order to free your action for things like Disengage, Dash, Dodge, Use, Help, etc.
Wich is effective way ...
You can ofcourse still use your action to cast a cantrip tho, but i admit i have hard time imagining situation where it would be the "most effective action" for you. :-/
Wich dont mean they dont exist! Just that i cant imagine any.
(Shocking huh? Once again what i said means litteraly what i said.)

And by the deffinition (duh) anything else than "most effective action" is less effective ... therefore since they are other options, there again logicaly have to be other play styles.

Its possible.

Observation.

To me Icelyn seems like person who simply want to have fun in this game ... maybe dont even care about the rules too hard ... who simply pick things that she either likes, or are curious about, rather than calculating for several minutes wich enemy she should attack first, what spell she should use if any in the first place, etc.

And since she didnt object against this characterization ... not now, nor in the past when i made it aswell ... i dare to presume my guess was at least not wrong enough to offend her.

Still can be wrong tho ... that is certainly true ... but i honestly believe that in this case, im not.

I must admit ... i wonder where you get that impression ...
Concidering that i litteraly described you that im often doing the exact oposite ... but i presume you simply left out some important part of that post. :-/

Now, shall we return to The Circlet of Fire?

+1 for the increased SP cost. Quickening a more powerful spell in BG3 results in a more powerful turn, so the SP cost should obviously scale with spell level. This is not true in tabletop, because Quickening a spell is mechanically equivalent with Quickening a non-spell (and constant power level) action like Dodge, Dash, Disengage, Dash, or Hide.

I don't think a restriction on levels of spells that Quicken can effect would be necessary with the above cost increase; it'd be a bit redundant.