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Originally Posted by kanisatha
I personally don't place much stock in the supposed iterative process developers get from EA and consider EA games to simply be unfinished games being dumped on me, the player. As such I will never ever play an EA game. Which then means I won't ever be providing feedback to the developer through their EA process. And I don't think very highly of the "player" feedback devs get from people playing their unfinished games. Ergo my opposition to EA. Btw, I also believe the model and process by which games are crowdfunded is also broken, and not a good way for a developer to create a game.
Fair enough. Personally, I still don't think RPGs are great fit for EA but more systemic titles can work really well - being enjoyable both for playerbase and giving valuable feedback to Devs.

Personal early access experiences that have been great from my personal experience were: Invisible Inc., Prison Architect, Hades. Those games, though had clear dialogue with their playerbase, resulting in tighter and tighter game with every patch. BG3 feels more like they are drip feeding us content every couple months with occasional responses here and there.

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Originally Posted by kanisatha
Originally Posted by Wormerine
Originally Posted by kanisatha
But to the point of this thread, my entire take on us coming up on the 2nd anniversary of BG3's EA is in the context of very strongly believing that Steam should have a hard policy of not allowing any game to be on EA for more than one year (maybe with some allowance for small indie devs).
I will have to strongly disagree with that. Games take years to develop - if you genuinely care about feedback from the player base it is in every company’s best interest to start this relationship as soon as possible. Would you really want for companies to progress further into the development before assessing what the player base likes and dislikes?

I am thinking to early access games I enjoyed and two years plus is not out of ordinary. Really, if you have less then a year of development left, what more can EA serve then pre-release cash flow and some player base to balance the final build?
Sure. We have very different ideas of how a studio should develop a game, so we're going to disagree on this. I personally don't place much stock in the supposed iterative process developers get from EA and consider EA games to simply be unfinished games being dumped on me, the player. As such I will never ever play an EA game. Which then means I won't ever be providing feedback to the developer through their EA process. And I don't think very highly of the "player" feedback devs get from people playing their unfinished games. Ergo my opposition to EA. Btw, I also believe the model and process by which games are crowdfunded is also broken, and not a good way for a developer to create a game. But unfortunately on that issue, small indie developers often have no choice but to go with crowdfunding.

I agree. I see EA as simply initial funding for the project. The illusion that you get to be part of the development of the game is not something I've even bought into. You're right though, I can see the benefit for smaller companies, but we're having massively successful companies trying to get crowdfunding/EA/kickstarter projects now, it's getting a bit silly.

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2 Year EA event?

Shutting down the forums because everything that can be said about the game so far has been said. Lol.

But seriously. How about releasing the soundtrack or something so I don't have to have commercials on YouTube.

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Originally Posted by kanisatha
An unexpected event is exactly that: unexpected. And in any such situation everyone makes adjustents, not just in this situation but in all situations everywhere.
So ...
The outcome would be exactly what we have now?


I still dont understand why cant we change Race for our hirelings. frown
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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
No i dont actualy ...

If this was supposed to be the way why we even god Fighter?
We should get Barbarian from the start ... there are same things to test minus Rage ... or other way around ... Larian had to invent their own skills for each totem warrior to make them more different ... wich os cool for Barbarians ... but sucks for Fighters who gets nothing.

Why we got Wizards?
Mechanically they are Sorcerers minus Metamagic ... i mean the only thing that is there to test is their spell learning ... but that is something people are complaining about since patch 1 ... and here we are two years later with no change.
So calue of THAT testing and feedback is at best questionable.

Not even mention that moders who are just sticking together bits and pieces leftover by Larian. And even so they managed a year ago to create both Monk and Paladin ... aswell as many (if not all) missing subclasses ... including some that arent even in PHB.
So call me naive but it seems to me that the only thing that is holding Larian back from releasing something is that they simply dont want to ... certainly not that some feedback wouldnt be so needed for them or that they dont have it ready ... i dont believe that.

As for benefits from Monk testing:
As you mentioned animations ...
It would certainly bring some life back ...
It would show Larian how well would Monks survive this world ...
They would finaly force Larian to make staves Versatile (that alone should be argument enough) ...
And last but certainly not least ... i for one am very interested in how would Monk work with catching and sending back arrows ... and maybe other throwable objects?

And BTW i like being Greedy dont you underestimate my greedyness! :P

I honestly wish we could see both monk and paladin in the same patch. Doubtful, since i have a feeling it's 1 or 2 more patches and then release.

Paladin feels like there's gonna be some itemization reworking, for monk extra animations. All of those are already done though in the internal build.

I don't really want much.

Just Paladin and Hexblade and multiclass, aaaaaand yeah :3

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Originally Posted by Krom
i have a feeling it's 1 or 2 more patches and then release
Me too ...
All the more reason to release them rather sooner than later. laugh

I mean ... gather 4 months of feedback will never be as good as 24 but still it is allways better than 2, isnt it?

Last edited by RagnarokCzD; 04/10/22 10:21 AM.

I still dont understand why cant we change Race for our hirelings. frown
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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by Krom
i have a feeling it's 1 or 2 more patches and then release
Me too ...
All the more reason to release them rather sooner than later. laugh

I mean ... gather 4 months of feedback will never be as good as 24 but still it is allways better than 2, isnt it?
Considering they are ramping up play testing, I assume you are right. SteamDB is filled with recurrent updates and I see it as a sign that the game is feature complete and the story is mostly done. But who knows...

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Originally Posted by Wormerine
Originally Posted by kanisatha
I personally don't place much stock in the supposed iterative process developers get from EA and consider EA games to simply be unfinished games being dumped on me, the player. As such I will never ever play an EA game. Which then means I won't ever be providing feedback to the developer through their EA process. And I don't think very highly of the "player" feedback devs get from people playing their unfinished games. Ergo my opposition to EA. Btw, I also believe the model and process by which games are crowdfunded is also broken, and not a good way for a developer to create a game.
Fair enough. Personally, I still don't think RPGs are great fit for EA but more systemic titles can work really well - being enjoyable both for playerbase and giving valuable feedback to Devs.

Personal early access experiences that have been great from my personal experience were: Invisible Inc., Prison Architect, Hades. Those games, though had clear dialogue with their playerbase, resulting in tighter and tighter game with every patch. BG3 feels more like they are drip feeding us content every couple months with occasional responses here and there.
Oh yes, you are right. Sorry, my bad. I should've specified my views on EA are exclusively about RPGs and not other types of games. smile More than 90% of my gaming time is on playing RPGs and I very rarely play other types of video games. But I can see EA being useful for games in the base/city/empire building and managing genre.

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Without EA we would still be able to jump to disengage and to jave advantage from highground. This EA is and has been important.

Ofc the experience is not really satisfying but it's only because Larian doesn't communicate at all between patches and doesn't create any events (in game or not).

Last edited by Maximuuus; 04/10/22 03:44 PM.

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Yeah, while you can see that EA has definitely led to changes in the game, it's definitely been pretty unsatisfying. I have seen games that provide more player interaction post launch than we've gotten pretty much this entire EA. Wrath of the Righteous, after its launch, sent out a series of surveys asking players for feedback. And even before launch, during and after the kickstarter, they posted a bunch of writeups of various classes and races, as well as companions and a couple of major NPCs. Something like that would really help make EA feel like a bit more of a community thing and less like a black box where our thoughts go in and we can only guess at what comes out.

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For 2 years of EA, the changes haven't weighed up to that. They refuse to do anything about Shove.

And though they fixed surfaces from Cantrips, they added Wet imbalance and other things. Not to mention we are still on "wait and see" about reactions after 2 FULL years. At this point, a revelation of the final roadmap with some new footage of new areas or some HONEST answers to questions with definite yes/no would be better than a content Patch 9.

No one wants to still be in limbo.

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I just noticed that all "patch 9" labeled asets were removed from SteamDB aproximately 2minutes(not sure if i read that corectly?) after adding ...
I gues this means abowe all doubts that we would have to wait a bit longer huh? frown

//Edit:
Even tho ... curent description of build(?) that was few times updated (so it should be more legit ... again, unless i read it wrong) seems interesting:
Temporary QA Playtest Branch ( NOT LIVE )

Especialy that "QA" part. O_o
Or is this shortcut used in English for something else than "Questions and Answers" aswell ?

Last edited by RagnarokCzD; 05/10/22 09:00 PM.

I still dont understand why cant we change Race for our hirelings. frown
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Yes, Rag - In this sense that stands for "Quality Assurance", which is a term used to reference employees testing specific things to make sure they work as intended.

You may have seen people here from time to time complaining that Larian are both using the EA testers as their unpaid QA team, but also not acknowledging the feedback or helping them do the job properly with the information exchange that would usually be required to do such work effectively.

Last edited by Niara; 06/10/22 01:09 AM.
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Oh ...
Ok my bad, thank you for explanation. smile


I still dont understand why cant we change Race for our hirelings. frown
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Happy anniversary (depending on your time zone)!


Larian, please make accessibility a priority for upcoming patches.
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Indeed!

birthday

celebrate celebrate celebrate


I still dont understand why cant we change Race for our hirelings. frown
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Happy anniversary!!!!

[Linked Image from media1.giphy.com]

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Larian's been completely quiet so far today. Usually if they say anything at all, it would have already happened by this time of day. For some of us, the day is only half over, but Larian doesn't typically operate off Pacific time.

Guess I may be right, Larian does not want to bring any attention to the fact that this game has been in EA for 2 years among the wider gaming community. Even the subreddit today has been incredibly more muted than expected.

Last edited by Saito Hikari; 06/10/22 06:41 PM.
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Yep, not a word from them or even a smoke signal. We enter year 3 wondering if the game will even be finished this time next year.

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Night has fallen on western Europe. This is worrying. Are they really going to say nothing at all?


Larian, please make accessibility a priority for upcoming patches.
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