Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Background Tags

My apologies if it's been suggested already but :

Currently :

• Classes have access to a special tag options during conversation.
• Backgrounds don't affect the gameplay (except for Inspiration points) even though they easily could. They have the potentiel to be a pretty important RP component. But currently, they feel a bit...empty/hollow.

I think it would be nice to add Backgrounds tags.
This is something I've felt was missing from the get-go. Especially as someone who has played Criminal/Charlatan Sorcerers and wants to play an Entertainer Paladin.


Suggestions :
1) Apply some of the Class Tags to certain Backgrounds.
For instance :
- Charlatan/Criminal/Urchin : some of the Rogue options.
- Entertainer : some of the Bards options.
- Soldier: some of the Fighter options.
- Guild Artisan : at least the Rogue options related to the Zhentarim.
- Hermit/Outlander : some of the Druid/Ranger options (and probably Monk options)

Obviously, this wouldn't be applicable to the options that are explicitly related to the different classes ("I'm a cleric of X", "I'm a bard"...).


2) Adding a few options that don't already exist for Backgrounds that can't easily be grouped with classes (Noble, Sage...).
It's probably more work though.


That would add more flavor to Backgrounds and help players role-playing their character to the fullest.


This could also help (in part) with issues brought by the following threads : Missing dialogue choices. and No middle ground?.


I might edit or post more concrete examples later. I just can't think of concrete ones at the minute.
I just remember thinking that continuously when playing the game.

We have to much fluff checks as is they hardy do much. Most do the same thing just with different flavor. Normaly it leads to kill don't kill - save outcomes.

I would prefer if the ones we do have already did more! Something intesting like lead to more quest, items that lead to something else and so on sky is the limit. LIke the hag quest choices that should be the standard for other content.

I do agree that lack of background impact on dialogue’s is disappointing. They added specific inspiration quest but I failed to engage with the system. I didn’t find inspiration points that useful so far, andI tend to forget about backgrounds existence until I get pop up for getting an inspiration point.

Larian early on stated they don’t plan to add extra dialogue options for backgrounds. Your suggestion to have some of the class specific options be shared with classes is interesting, but I am not in favour of it.

First of all, BG3 already homogenised classes too much for my taste - having class specific options be available to other classes is not something I like the sound of. More importantly, I think such change would encourage unintuitive meta gaming. I surely, with a system like that you would never want a bard with entertainer background, as you wouldn’t gain much benefit from it. At the same time, picking a background not fitting your class (to maximise the benefit) would reward choices not to the class’s strength through inspiration system.

Connecting class specific and background specific sounds interesting for single playthrough ...
But would negatively affect replayability im affraid.

Also i remember Swen talking in some interview that Backgrounds will not be used as dialogue choices, bcs there would be too much permutations for them to handle. :-/

Wich is understandable ... adding another symbols makes total amount of permutations grow exponencialy. :-/

You do have a point there.
Except I don't believe that " background not fitting your class " is a thing. There's always ways to create unique characters that way 😛
The issue would be "background not fitting you character" in my opinion.
But for the rest, yes. I agree actually.


I'm not sure how that's true and I will never be in favor of removing options just to force replay-value. Especially when it means "forcing" players to pick either vanilla answers (usually black or white) or one specific stereotype related to a class.

But I may see your point and yes the first solution given might not be ideal either.
For example, adding "witty"/"funny" answers (currently mostly locked behind the Bard class) to a specific Background is not really an solution.
Many people picking different class might want those options without picking that one specific background.

But here's why it's a shame that Background don't receive more love and that "stereotypes" are locked behind classes :
Currently, the game seems to rely on one stereotype per class.
So, excluding "vanilla" options (to make things easier, I don't believe it would impact that much anyway), they can only be 12 "uniques" stereotypes (the 12 classes from the PHB).

However, if Backgrounds are given a little more love (meaning new tag options), we could have 156 unique combinations between Background and Classes.
(If the 12 classes and 13 backgrounds are released : 12 x 13 = 156).

Also, Backgrounds are supposed to give access to certain items and other proficiencies that aren't in the game at all.
For example, Entertainers should be able to play an instrument according to PHB. Criminals should have proficiency with thieve's tools.

With how things currently works and how Backgrounds don't add anything meaningful in terms of RP or gameplay :

• Custom characters won't have much opportunities to have depth
• People would be invited to pick Backgrounds only for the skill proficiencies. The inspiration points system is not that thrilling or impactful anyway.

Easy solution then, and one they already know about : adding different options (to had flavor) resulting in the same output. I would settle for that. Better that than no love for Backgrounds.


But hey, all things come to worst...I'll be disappointed and then I'll multiclass my Tav as a Bard/Paladin (Lore/Ancients). No regret. The spreadsheet has already been made 😄. The Backgrounds would still be meaningless but I'll get to play the character as I want (well...more or less).


Note: that post probably sounds more ranty that intended 😅 Oh well 😆 There are days like this. I guess I'm feeling extra passionate about the issue today 😅

Damn ...
I swear it by the old gods and the new ... i had perfect argument in mind, but before i get to computer, it was gone!
Hate when this happens ... anyway.

Well thats quite easy ...

There is not much reason to storywise play a Rogue, if you allready seen all Rogue specific reactions and dialogue choices with your Warlock, just bcs that one have Criminal background.
I know there is still combat, but thats different topic.

Personaly i think that Inspiration "miniquests" are perfect compromise ...
If you think about it, its foten allready there, just hidden ... if you pick right dialogue choice, wich (in Larian eyes, obviously) would your *insert-background-here* would ... you get rewarded with inspiration.

That is basicaly like having that dialogue [*insert-background-here*] ... just hidden.

Me neither ...

Luckily you cant really "remove" something that was not present in the first place ...
So, this is more like matter of adding or not.

The way you say this it almost feels as if you would concider regular answers to be something lesser. O_o

I know the urge, i often also pick [class] or [race] options, just bcs i feel like my Barbarian should be Barbaric, and my Rogue should be Roguish, and my Gnome should certainly be the Gnomest Gnome that ever Gnomed!
But, they are not something better ... or, maybe i should say they shouldnt be.

I completely agree that "regular" answers are often (and by that i mean allmost in every single conversation) lack lot of nuances to express anything complex ... and sometimes (yes, Astarion dialogue again) to provide even any option for basic responces. :-/
But that can (and should) be resolved by adding more responces to cover at least the most basic reactions ... that is in my opinion: Acceptance, rejection, ridicule ... maybe questioning in cases when that makes sense.

Problem is (as it seems to me) that Larian is trying really hard to make every Race and Class special.
I believe it was Niara (not sure tho) who mentioned some time ago that her Halfling was able to resolve argue between Aradin and Zevlor peacefully by Racial-specific dialogue option.
And she disliked it, bcs if i remember her argument corectly (only paraphrasing here) "Halflings are not the only one who can think peacefully" ... wich is certainly true!
BUT!
And this is core of the problem ... if you take away peacefull solutions from Halflings, what will remain for them?

People are often complaining that [HUMAN] have so little specific dialogue options.
I think the reason is quite simple ... while every Race have some really specific aretype ... Humans do not ... they are everywhere, all kind of personalities, all kind of societies, all kind of professions ... Humans in DnD simply dont have any other unificating trait than that they are the most common race, and are present everywhere.
But how can you create options based on THAT?

Personaly i beleive that "regular" responces should contain all responces that are in this game, all races, all classes ... all at once.
And then Race-specific and Class-specific options should go to same outcome (maybe with slight bonus, or penalisation to rolls, depending on situation) but with more nuanced texts.

For example:
If "regular" answer tells us something like: "We should talk."
Then [Halfling] would be: "How about discussing it over a pitcher of beer?"
(For example! Just to reflect how much Halflings loves feasts! )

But problem (for lack of better term) is that in this case, Race-specific and Class-specific responces dont play so vital role, since anybody can do anything and they are just nuances to roleplay your character better.

I digressed a bit

I dont mind this to be honest ...
As long as there is enough "regular" reactions to express yourself ... problem starts in my opinion, when you dont ... and that is not misstake of a class specific answers.

I dont think we need several options per class ...
Race-specific and Class-specific options reflects "typical member of *X/Y*" ... thats just how things are.
If you are typical member as Larian imagine them ... then there is typical answer for you ... if you are not, you have other options.

I mean, no developer in the world can create all "unusual combinations" we can come up with anyway. :-/

Not at all what i had in mind, but good point!

Dont forget there is also 1 per race.

Question is if they arent in the game at all ... or just yet. :-/
Shame we have no way to find out, huh?

Thats something im asking for aswell.

As long as it dont get screwed as first meeting with Astarion, where not several options ... but all of them have exactly the same outcome. -_-
Such conversations have no meaning at all. :-/

It was never about adding ALL specific options as stated in the original post.

That's a matter of taste. It's cool that you can enjoy it.
It's a "meh" for me.


I meant : "Refusing to have options in common between certain races and classes for the sake of "replay-value" is not something I find acceptable.
But sure, let's focus on semantic.


What in the hells. You making assumption about how I play is annoying and I find that section of your response to be particularly condescending. Anyway, I'm going to leave it there because dissecting this wouldn't be constructive and I don't like this type of discourse.

I'll just say this : those suggestions were never about being "The" answer to the lack of dialogue options. Merely to add more substance to Background and, in part (only in part) helping a little bit with the lack of dialogue options.
And no (can't believe I have to state this), I don't have the compulsion to pick special tags (wtf).


Not a bad suggestion.

I did not forget. I'm counting this as things that would not count against my point as they would still be more opportunities to have unique RP experience by adding background options in dialogue than not.