Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General Dank Crypt(Overgrown Ruins) vs. Fort Joy Prison

Warning: I use the phrase "an absolute f****** idiot" in the course of this as illustration of the core issue; it is not an insult directed at anyone.


None of which is in any way relevant or at all related to what I wrote and to which that section of your answer claimed to respond. I'll say it again:

We KNOW immediately that something is off and wrong about our tadpole. We do not know what, or why or how.

Meeting the True Souls does NOTHING to allay our own concern of immediate danger because theirs are not the same as ours, and we cannot be sure that they are; they didn't come from the same source, they were not on the ship with us, and none of them know they have tadpoles and believe they are talking to a god. This does not give us tangible information that we can apply to ourselves. It simply does not.

If you are an absolute f****** idiot, you can assume that what is true for them is also true for us, and wager the entirety of your life and continued existence upon this firmly enough that you Relax and Stop Rushing, and Allow yourself To Be Diverted By Other Things. If you are an absolute f****** idiot.



If you are an absolute f****** idiot, you can certainly make that bald-faced assumption about this thing which you know next to nothing at all about, and which is not even playing by the same rules that scholars and those experienced with them say they should be. If you are an absolute f****** idiot.

You can assume they are all the same. You can assume they all have the same gestation/triggering time, and you can assume that, despite the minor differences, what is true of the true souls will definitely and reliably be true for you as well. IF, and only IF you are an absolute f****** idiot.


It doesn't need to be - it needs only to be valid enough that the concern that this thing which we know next to nothing about, and which is not even acting in the same way that scholars say it should be, may not be predictable, and may not interact with everyone the same way, and may not be identical to theirs... and it very much is enough for that concern to be valid and legitimate. So, a long as you are not an absolute f****** idiot, you take that valid concern seriously, and you don't relax or allow yourself to be diverted from the main problem. On the other hand, you can ignore those concerns and possibilities, and just make the half-hearted assumption that it will be fine for now, because they seem fine enough for now, and so it might be okay to put it on the back burner and explore the region, or do some side quests first.... if you are an absolute f****** idiot.


You don't assume they are different. It is prudent, however, to entertain the possibility that they are not identical, given the minor differences present. Why assume that they are the same, and thus relax your guard enough to slow down and explore and side-quest... when the outcome of this problem, and whether you can solve it or not, has not only your life, but your immortal continuance as well, as the stake in the balance? Answer: Only if you are an absolute f****** idiot.


Not when my life and eternal continuance are the stake on the line, no. I remain open to all possibilities, and assume nothing as given in favour of my time or safety that I cannot reliably confirm... because I'm not an absolute f****** idiot.
It's a possibility that I may have plenty of time. It's also a possibility that I may not. I literally do not know, and I would not assume that I'm safer than the worst case scenario predicts, with those kinds of stakes. Someone who would is, it must be said, an absolute f****** idiot.


Nice proverb... and might I remind you that said 'Drowning Person' would Absolutely F****** Not just let themselves sink slowly under the waves and relax, because they Assume that they've probably got more time still, or that the water won't kill them 'yet'. The desperate person would not get distracted by seaweed collecting side-quests, while they are trying to swim, or duck under the water to examine the interesting coral. They SWIM... which in this proverb correlates to pursuing a cure for their tadpole.

The anecdote you were probably searching for would be one about denial - the individual who sees that there is a possibility that they have more time, and out of an unwillingness to face the direness of their situation, will jump to that and treat it as iron-clad fact, because if it IS fact, then they are safe for now... so it must be fact, surely! It's certainty the action of someone in denial, but more prominently, it's the action of an absolute f****** idiot.


Sounds like you are describing your own stance more than mine, here, Rag. You're the one claiming that these parallels and assumptions of similarity, and instances of 'well it didn't happen yet', Are enough to reasonable relax and explore, and pursue side-quests. If anyone is not really considering the extent of the life-and-continued-immortal-existence-threatening-danger, it's the character who sets them aside to side-quest and explore, before they have a legitimate confirmation of their personal situation... aka, the absolute f****** idiot.


I didn't put words in your mouth - I suggested that you were being intellectually dishonest, or at least disingenuous with the words that you used.


No I didn't... you quite openly said that it was understandable or sensible to conclude that we weren't in immediate danger. That's exactly the step you took, no further. I'm just highlighting how ridiculous a statement it is. To be clear, you said:


This is you having the land mine, and seeing that it didn't explode, and are saying that we can chill out about having it embedded in our forehead (let's imagine it was quite a step...), because you assume that it won't explode any time soon, based only on the idea that it hasn't yet, and that there are other unexploded land mines about here that also haven't gone off. This is Exactly the step you are taking... I'm not making you out to be more extreme than you are making yourself.


Because if the land mine had exploded when you stepped on it, only you would be dead; now there's no telling when or where it will explode and thus it could be potentially endangering many, many, MANY more lives. There's one way in which it is not good news, and I don't believe for a second that you were so unimaginative as to not be able to think of that, so, my statement stands: don't lie to support your point, it only undermines it. Do not claim that you 'cannot imagine' something in order to support your point, when you could or can... it's intellectually dishonest (it is, in fact, a form of relevance fallacy, known as the argument from incredulity, if you'd like to look it up).


It is possible, if and only if that person is an absolute f****** idiot. I'm not denying that, and never have. The issue is that you must be an absolute f****** idiot to make this choice.

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When you say:

Generally speaking, what that is taken to mean, in english, is that you are claiming that this is factual proof that the process ceremorphosis is not working - not that it's behaving differently or being strange, or is more stretched out, or altered, but that it is literally not working at all. If that wasn't your intention, and what you meant to say was that it "was not working in the normal way", then yes, we agree on that and are on the same page here... it's a clear fact, but it also tells us nothing of use or value about what IS happening, so it's a largely irrelevant one.


This was in relation to your comment about the tadpole 'not working'. Consider it moot; I think we've cleared up that particular miscommunication, and are on the same page for it, more or less.

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And we do not know, at all, how much time we might have, or if time is a factor or not - we do not know, and any assumption that we have time to spare is an assumption that would only be made by an absolute f****** idiot, until such a time as we get information from a suitably reliable authority source that time itself is not an issue for us. As soon as we GET that, then the time crunch comes off and it makes sense to explore and do side quests, and so on, but BEFORE we get that, diverting to explore or do side quests are actions that would only be taken by absolute f****** idiots.


There is an important difference: the two thoughts are not mutually exclusive, however the person who assumes the first but dismisses the second strongly enough to allow themselves to be diverted by exploration and side quests is an absolute f****** idiot.


Except for that part where Halsin himself mentions that we are different from the True Souls; that we have an awareness of the tadpole, and can feel it exercising its own power, while the True Souls do not and cannot, and know nothing of Illithids. Our situation Is. Not. The. Same. Similar, defiantly, and maybe it was meant to be the same, probably... but it very much is not, however that has come about. In character, in universe, after talking with Halsin, we know that we are different from them, somehow, but we do not know why or how, or in what other ways.

Anyone who walks away from this and wagers their life and immortal continuance on the assumption that they will certainly have the same amount of time as those others is an absolute f****** idiot.


I am not asking for that - no-one is.

This is where you're missing the point, I think. No-one is saying that characters must necessarily be flawlessly logical, collected or deeply interrogative. Just that the game must not require them to be absolute f****** idiots in order to make sense.


I don't need to.

The friend you know of who carried home that bomb is an absolute f****** idiot for doing so... and a majority of sane people will agree with that assessment.

The majority of people in the world are NOT absolute f****** idiots. As you conveniently mention, the Darwin Awards are a thing because absolute f******* idiots of that magnitude are generally quite rare. If they were more common, we wouldn't have awards for them, because it would be nothing unusual.

One Darwin Award in particular is compelling here - There was a man who burned to death on the roof of his house, while sitting in a deck chair, drinking a beer and eating a cheese platter; the fire was all around him, but it wasn't on his section of the roof yet, and the firemen were trying to get him down while they were trying to deal with the fire. He would not heed them, because he wanted to finish his wine and his cheese first, and didn't want to be interrupted; he would come down when he was done, the fire could wait (he shouted this to the firemen, I believe). The fire did not wait, part of the roof gave in, and he fell, and was burned to death in the guts of the house. This man won a Darwin Award because he was an absolute f****** idiot.

There is a particularly strong parallel between this Darwin, and the character who decides they have time to side-quest and explore, before they have authoritative information that the time they take to do so is not a problem.

Any character who wakes up with the knowledge that they have a situation which, if it eventuates, will not only kill them, but also obliterate their immortal soul and their hope of continuance after death (which, in the realms, people know they have, and it's not a matter of uncertain faith but is tangible knowledge), and who does not know the details of this situation, or how, or what, or when, or why it might trigger and occur, when by all current knowledge it should have done so already... and who decides, based on loose similarity to other situations, that they have time to divert, do side quests and explore, while putting the immediate search for a solution on the back burner... Is An Absolute F****** Idiot.

In order to do the contents of Act 1 in a sensible or expected way, and not miss great gulfs of content, it requires us to do this, substantially, before it begins to provide anything close to a strong enough source of information about our condition to warrant it... in short, it requires not only us, but also all of our companions, who go along with us, to be Absolute F****** Idiots.

If Your Game Requires The PC To Be An Absolute F****** Idiot in order to make sense, then your game design has FAILED.

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If we get that information in a timely fashion, this hole problem disappears entirely. We need to be Rushed, right up until we get information that is certain and authoritative enough to take the time crunch off our shoulders. This means no side quests and no chances to explore until we have that information, and it makes more sense for us to 'chill', as you say, and do so. In turn, this means that information needs to come early enough that it doesn't interfere with our exploration of Act 1, OR we must not have a chance to explore Act 1, do side quests, or miss content, until we DO get that information.

For the information to be authoritative enough, it needs to come from someone who can see and understand our Particular situation, not just general principles - either someone versed in the issue itself and able to examine us in relation to it, who can tell us more clearly what our stance is (even just as little as being confirmed that time alone won't destroy us... or it needs to come from someone who knows exactly what happened to us, but in a channel or method that we can reasonably trust, whether we like it or not. Halsin's anecdotal examination is not enough, as it stands; it's inconclusive about whether our situation is the same as theirs, and he makes it clear that he can't tell how much time we might have. Ormellum's examination DOES satisfy, since he discerns that it is contained and requires a trigger, and that time alone will not turn us in our present state... but Ormellum is deep, deep in the back end of the Act.

There are a handful of different ways this could be fixed to solve the issue and make everyone (most people...) content; as long as they fix it somehow.

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Ah, well, that's new to me, and I've not seen that. It's good to know, thank you. I'll take your word for it and redact that line.