So a generic statement of “we read the feedback” is enough to convince you? Where is proof of it? Anyone can say it and it’s empty words….
1) Where is the change to make companions not like a carbon copy of dos2 2) where is the ai revamp 3) where is the menu revamp 4) where are the nails that person asked for 5) where are the reactions that the community has written 19+ pages of feedback on. 6) where are paladins 7) where are the sex scenes. And many more.
I not feeling the feedback, nor the love or the attention by the devs or the community manager they so adamantly screeched about. “ SHOW ME the SMOKING GUN”!!
Until we see it. They done jack diddle squat to listening.
This: "Our goal is for even the players who have repeated Act 1 over and over again for hundreds of hours to feel like there’s a whole new experience in store for them at launch."
From the Steam patch 9 release. Exactly what I had hoped for. Hope all your wishes come true gamers! smile
I "choose" to believe that that means one of my previous expectations will be met.
As is always, there are posters on both (all) sides of the issue: 1.) Posters who ignore the game's faults and dismiss criticism of the game. Common arguments are: "It's EA; trust that Larian will fix it." or "The engine can't handle that." 2.) Posters who who focus on the positives of the game while acknowledging valid criticism. 3.) Posters who focus on the negatives of the game while acknowledging the positives. 4.) Posters who are overly critical and hateful, arguing against any positive posts about the game.
In my experience being here from day 1, there has been a shift from 3&4 to 1&2 as time has passed. I'm not necessarily claiming that this forum is majority 1&2 posts, but it's definitely more than before. Possibly because many people in the #4 category have left by now. Also note my use of "posts" not "posters" - there are a few users who frequently post.
I'll also argue that there's been a shift to the extremes. More 1&4 than 2&3 than when EA was just beginning. This is likely partially because so many topics have just been exhausted at this point; there's not much new to discuss/provide feedback on, so the "level-headed" people post less.
Originally Posted by Topper
Originally Posted by AusarViled
So a generic statement of “we read the feedback” is enough to convince you? Where is proof of it? Anyone can say it and it’s empty words….
1) Where is the change to make companions not like a carbon copy of dos2 2) where is the ai revamp 3) where is the menu revamp 4) where are the nails that person asked for 5) where are the reactions that the community has written 19+ pages of feedback on. 6) where are paladins 7) where are the sex scenes. And many more.
I not feeling the feedback, nor the love or the attention by the devs or the community manager they so adamantly screeched about. “ SHOW ME the SMOKING GUN”!!
Until we see it. They done jack diddle squat to listening.
This: "Our goal is for even the players who have repeated Act 1 over and over again for hundreds of hours to feel like there’s a whole new experience in store for them at launch."
From the Steam patch 9 release. Exactly what I had hoped for. Hope all your wishes come true gamers! smile
I "choose" to believe that that means one of my previous expectations will be met.
This is not new information though. Swen told us this like 4 patches ago. Also, this "whole new experience" Act 1 content won't be in Patch 9; it will be in the full release of BG3.
It's fine to be excited for new content, but nothing in that quote shows that Larian has read the feedback. If you're going to use a quote as evidence of Larian listening, a much more apt one is "In the Community Update accompanying that [Patch 9] Panel From Hell, we’ll go into detail about some of the most discussed topics in the community." This says that Larian is listening to feedback, although it doesn't specify whether Larian will be making changes to BG3 based on said feedback.
As is always, there are posters on both (all) sides of the issue: 1.) Posters who ignore the game's faults and dismiss criticism of the game. Common arguments are: "It's EA; trust that Larian will fix it." or "The engine can't handle that." 2.) Posters who who focus on the positives of the game while acknowledging valid criticism. 3.) Posters who focus on the negatives of the game while acknowledging the positives. 4.) Posters who are overly critical and hateful, arguing against any positive posts about the game.
In my experience being here from day 1, there has been a shift from 3&4 to 1&2 as time has passed. I'm not necessarily claiming that this forum is majority 1&2 posts, but it's definitely more than before. Possibly because many people in the #4 category have left by now. Also note my use of "posts" not "posters" - there are a few users who frequently post.
I'll also argue that there's been a shift to the extremes. More 1&4 than 2&3 than when EA was just beginning. This is likely partially because so many topics have just been exhausted at this point; there's not much new to discuss/provide feedback on, so the "level-headed" people post less.
Originally Posted by Topper
Originally Posted by AusarViled
So a generic statement of “we read the feedback” is enough to convince you? Where is proof of it? Anyone can say it and it’s empty words….
1) Where is the change to make companions not like a carbon copy of dos2 2) where is the ai revamp 3) where is the menu revamp 4) where are the nails that person asked for 5) where are the reactions that the community has written 19+ pages of feedback on. 6) where are paladins 7) where are the sex scenes. And many more.
I not feeling the feedback, nor the love or the attention by the devs or the community manager they so adamantly screeched about. “ SHOW ME the SMOKING GUN”!!
Until we see it. They done jack diddle squat to listening.
This: "Our goal is for even the players who have repeated Act 1 over and over again for hundreds of hours to feel like there’s a whole new experience in store for them at launch."
From the Steam patch 9 release. Exactly what I had hoped for. Hope all your wishes come true gamers! smile
I "choose" to believe that that means one of my previous expectations will be met.
This is not new information though. Swen told us this like 4 patches ago. Also, this "whole new experience" Act 1 content won't be in Patch 9; it will be in the full release of BG3.
It's fine to be excited for new content, but nothing in that quote shows that Larian has read the feedback. If you're going to use a quote as evidence of Larian listening, a much more apt one is "In the Community Update accompanying that [Patch 9] Panel From Hell, we’ll go into detail about some of the most discussed topics in the community." This says that Larian is listening to feedback, although it doesn't specify whether Larian will be making changes to BG3 based on said feedback.
Remember, its just a game...... My expectations may vary from others expectations. There are indeed a few things I'd like to see that are not yet or may never be included in the game. That TO ME does not mean they aren't listening to us. Others can choose to interpret Larians words on feedback as they will. Time for wine.
Constructive criticism is fine & I see plenty of well thought out arguments n the forums - no body really minds that - it’s the vitriol & nonsense arguments & statements that are just trying to pull something down which isn’t helping anyone.
In theory, I would agree with this, but then who gets to define what is "constructive" and what isn't? What I see on this forum far too often is that any and all criticism of the game is labeled "unjustified" or "unfair" or "vitriolic" and the critics are then viciously attacked and mocked for daring to criticize what "everyone" knows is "the greatest game ever made."
Have you even read this very thread at all, let alone the forums? This just isn't true. Criticism and heated debates about whose criticism is the most critical is basically the majority of the forums, rather it's the few of differing opinion that gets misrepresented; As you kind of prove.
Sorry but I strongly disagree. I see efforts to dismiss or shut down critics far too frequently. But obviously I'm not going to get into an argument about it with a moderator. And yes, I have been reading this and all other similar threads very thoroughly.
Constructive criticism is fine & I see plenty of well thought out arguments n the forums - no body really minds that - it’s the vitriol & nonsense arguments & statements that are just trying to pull something down which isn’t helping anyone.
In theory, I would agree with this, but then who gets to define what is "constructive" and what isn't? What I see on this forum far too often is that any and all criticism of the game is labeled "unjustified" or "unfair" or "vitriolic" and the critics are then viciously attacked and mocked for daring to criticize what "everyone" knows is "the greatest game ever made."
Have you even read this very thread at all, let alone the forums? This just isn't true. Criticism and heated debates about whose criticism is the most critical is basically the majority of the forums, rather it's the few of differing opinion that gets misrepresented; As you kind of prove.
Sorry but I strongly disagree. I see efforts to dismiss or shut down critics far too frequently. But obviously I'm not going to get into an argument about it with a moderator. And yes, I have been reading this and all other similar threads very thoroughly.
It's just because you still can't get over the fact that they have shut down all of our posts/thread talking about RTWP
I feel like the greater part of my - often quite heavy and incisive critical feedback - is usually taken with various levels of agreement to grudging acknowledgement about the boards. The main issues I've pushed on personally have been ones that have generally had strong support from other commenters. The fact that most of those same issues have received no changes or updates or improvements in this time, and also have not yet received so much as a public acknowledgement as being an issue from Larian, either, is what has driven my gradually increasing cynicism for the process, not the community here. In recent months there have been a strange upsurge of several new posters showing up and being vocal with extremely defensive attitudes towards criticism of the game... but that is recent, from my perspective.
Probably a few more jumping into early access, enjoying the game & giving their 2 cents worth.
I do think a few of the key wishes for the game i.e 6 man party & rtwp that some see as critical to the success of the game have to just realise that most likely that ship has long since sailed and decide whether to support the game if they can without those features or perhaps one of them only.
Why dismiss a game when it has 75% of what you really want ? No game is perfect..
I don't think the ship for RTWP ever even existed as it's not even a feature request, it's changing a turn-based game into a completely different sub-genre ^^
As someone who exclusively preferred and played RT games, I would roll my eyes every time I saw an interesting game coming out only to find out it's turn-based. Because I absolutely abhorred turn-based gameplay as it was so boring to me, especially that hideous grid movement system that most have, so in the back of my mind I'd always wonder why are they ruining a great RPG idea with boring turn-based gameplay. At least I thought so until BG3 came out in Early Access.
BG3 despite being turn-based, had plenty of RPG elements that I love and somehow captivated me enough to give it a chance. So I bought it and ended up enjoying the experience. However I only played it for a very short time initially at the beginning, as I wanted to play something that didn't have that Early Access unpolished feeling. So I took a look at Larian's other games in hopes that there's a game that might offer an experience as close as it could to BG3 and that is when I saw the beauty that was DOS2 and how my love for turn-based RPGs actually began. Initially I was reluctant at first due to the art style, as it seemed somewhat cartoonish so I wasn't sure I would be able to take it seriously, but it looked the closest to the experience I might get with BG3 so I bought it and it pleasantly surprised me so much that it became one of my favorite games of all time now. Even got DOS1 because of it because I was left craving for more.
So Larian managed to convert me from someone who abhorred, actively avoided and couldn't stomach turn-based games, to someone who now loves them and even prefers them due to how intimate the combat feels. I always look fondly on how I bought DOS2 just to satisfy my itch for BG3, but then turned out so good that even after several 100% playthroughs I had to buy DOS1 just to satisfy my DOS2 itch. And for BG3 I've been going full steam ahead to satisfy its itch ever since
So I have no doubt the game is going to be a massive success, just like DOS2 has been. A lack of certain features won't change my enjoyment of the game in the slightest. As for the upcoming patch 9, I'm just looking forward to playing it and discovering what's new, but mostly to satisfy my BG3 itch.
D:0S2 worked because it was its own system, based in its own world with its own lore, and with its own rule-set - which was clearly explained due to how simplistic its various 'moving parts' were. It was flashy, but ultimately shallow, and that worked very well for it as a game.
BG3 has none of those fail-safe elements - It's based in someone else's world and lore space, which is a major point for disappoint or annoying a prospective audience, and it's using an existing and established rule-set, which the current game does NOT do a very clear job of explaining ,and does not communicate consistently at all... and which Larian are further deviating from heavily, in many unnecessary ways, beyond the reasonable to-video-game translation QoL adaptations, and that's another big point upon which they can skewer themselves annoying or disappoint audiences, when their advertising and draw cards were to set themselves up as the definitive 5e video game. They are also responsible for this entry as being a continuation of an existing and much beloved franchise, and are using that as another of their major draw cards for pulling crowds... so if the game doesn't feel like a true successor to those games, that's another place where they can hang themselves disappointing or annoying prospective fans. These are all considerations that they didn't have to think about with their earlier games, and while they've shown a great willingness to ride the coattail benefits of these things, they haven't shown the respect they need to for utilising them, and it could end up going very badly for them as a result.
They could make a very excellent game that could stand comfortably and be popular on its own, if it were its own system and based in its own world, with its own lore, like the Divinity games were... and yet still end up with a complete flop and the ridicule of the greater gaming community instead, for pitching it as something that they didn't actually deliver on and never intended to - or being seen to have done so. This isn't meant as an attack - it's just a genuine risk they should be more wary of, with the project they've taken on.
D:0S2 worked because it was its own system, based in its own world with its own lore, and with its own rule-set - which was clearly explained due to how simplistic its various 'moving parts' were. It was flashy, but ultimately shallow, and that worked very well for it as a game.
BG3 has none of those fail-safe elements - It's based in someone else's world and lore space, which is a major point for disappoint or annoying a prospective audience, and it's using an existing and established rule-set, which the current game does NOT do a very clear job of explaining ,and does not communicate consistently at all... and which Larian are further deviating from heavily, in many unnecessary ways, beyond the reasonable to-video-game translation QoL adaptations, and that's another big point upon which they can skewer themselves annoying or disappoint audiences, when their advertising and draw cards were to set themselves up as the definitive 5e video game. They are also responsible for this entry as being a continuation of an existing and much beloved franchise, and are using that as another of their major draw cards for pulling crowds... so if the game doesn't feel like a true successor to those games, that's another place where they can hang themselves disappointing or annoying prospective fans. These are all considerations that they didn't have to think about with their earlier games, and while they've shown a great willingness to ride the coattail benefits of these things, they haven't shown the respect they need to for utilising them, and it could end up going very badly for them as a result.
They could make a very excellent game that could stand comfortably and be popular on its own, if it were its own system and based in its own world, with its own lore, like the Divinity games were... and yet still end up with a complete flop and the ridicule of the greater gaming community instead, for pitching it as something that they didn't actually deliver on and never intended to - or being seen to have done so. This isn't meant as an attack - it's just a genuine risk they should be more wary of, with the project they've taken on.
One thing is for sure, BG3 made in Larian style makes sense. Put yourself at WotC position : you have a franchise which hasn't had a game in 22 years, its fan base as dwindled to basically a drop of water in the sea of modern player base, and its genre has also became so niche that it is a miracle that you get one good game per year. Would you rather risking a lot of time and money on trying to chase that past or would you let the most popular developer by far in this domain take a stab at it?
[quote=Niara] One thing is for sure, BG3 made in Larian style makes sense. Put yourself at WotC position : you have a franchise which hasn't had a game in 22 years, its fan base as dwindled to basically a drop of water in the sea of modern player base, and its genre has also became so niche that it is a miracle that you get one good game per year. Would you rather risking a lot of time and money on trying to chase that past or would you let the most popular developer by far in this domain take a stab at it?
I disagree with a lot of what you say here. CRPGs are very popular and not quite the niche they were 20 plus years ago.
Secondly Larian were pitching for the BG IP for a while and were repeatedly turned down by WotC. I wholeheartedly disagree that BG3 should be made in Larian’s style; they should have respected the history and source material and not dispensed with so much of what makes those games legendary.
Thirdly on what basis are Larian considered the most popular RPG developer?
One thing is for sure, BG3 made in Larian style makes sense.
I won't disagree, though I am surprised how much work was done to paint over systems they are adapting. I can imagine people getting frustrated by conflicting information game presents - a more familiar venier of % to hit, visual positioning, but also spells and weapons that give +2 to hit (2 what? 2%?), status effects but also guaranteedhit surfaces and items. I feel BG3 has an identity problem, and I will curious how a fresh pair of eyes will perceive 1.0.
I do not expect doom & gloom for Larian though - reception has been rather positive so far, so while the game might be a disappointment to some both BG and D:OS fans, I think it chances to be overall well received are pretty high.
The name (i.e., "Baldur's Gate") is going to attract many customers; it isn't difficult to pull in the dosh when you're riding a cherished legacy.
They could have called the game "Auntie Ethel's Saggy Tits", it would make little difference. It's a high quality RPG with Larian behind it who are known to make consistently great games, so the name has very little to do with its success during Early Access as it's merely a continuation of a story and there to interest those familiar with the franchise, but it does nothing for those who aren't.
Great games with high quality aspects are what attract people, even those outside the franchise that know nothing about it. Like Witcher 3, Cyberpunk, God Of War 2018, Metro Exodus, Mass Effect 2 or Divinity Original Sin 2... and so on. If BG3 was a terrible game, no name in the world would make it a success.
One thing is for sure, BG3 made in Larian style makes sense.
He agrees.
^ Jump to 3:30.
Originally Posted by Swen Vincke
... so, the chance to do that, and to bring what basically is our RPG identity to Baldur's Gate as a franchise was an opportunity too good to resist. And so, what it will do for us... uh, what we think it will do for us is it's going to show a larger segment of people, because I think Baldur's Gate 3 will reach more people than Divinity will have done... it will show a larger segment of the population what our RPGs feel like and hopefully bring them to play our other games also.
I am not interested in a new(er) studio trying to push their identity through a beloved established series in an attempt to pursue greater profits. Sadly, this only confirms my initial suspicions of BG3. The game could still be decent on its own merits, sure, but it won't be Baldur's Gate.
[quote=Niara] One thing is for sure, BG3 made in Larian style makes sense. Put yourself at WotC position : you have a franchise which hasn't had a game in 22 years, its fan base as dwindled to basically a drop of water in the sea of modern player base, and its genre has also became so niche that it is a miracle that you get one good game per year. Would you rather risking a lot of time and money on trying to chase that past or would you let the most popular developer by far in this domain take a stab at it?
I disagree with a lot of what you say here. CRPGs are very popular and not quite the niche they were 20 plus years ago.
Secondly Larian were pitching for the BG IP for a while and were repeatedly turned down by WotC. I wholeheartedly disagree that BG3 should be made in Larian’s style; they should have respected the history and source material and not dispensed with so much of what makes those games legendary.
Thirdly on what basis are Larian considered the most popular RPG developer?
Are you kidding? Around 20 years ago, you had Diablo 2, BG2, Neverwinter Nights, Planescape Torment, Fallout 2, Deus Ex, Icewind Dale, Divine Divinity. The shooter craze wasn't as ubiquitous so they were relatively way more popular. It seems people only recently regained interest in CRPG, but it is but a grain of salt in the modern gaming landscape.
Second is your opinion, can't argue with taste.
Third, it is for sure the most popular CRPG developer of today. I can't think of any other game similar to DoS 2 which broke its 5 million+ sale.
[quote=Niara] One thing is for sure, BG3 made in Larian style makes sense. Put yourself at WotC position : you have a franchise which hasn't had a game in 22 years, its fan base as dwindled to basically a drop of water in the sea of modern player base, and its genre has also became so niche that it is a miracle that you get one good game per year. Would you rather risking a lot of time and money on trying to chase that past or would you let the most popular developer by far in this domain take a stab at it?
I disagree with a lot of what you say here. CRPGs are very popular and not quite the niche they were 20 plus years ago.
Secondly Larian were pitching for the BG IP for a while and were repeatedly turned down by WotC. I wholeheartedly disagree that BG3 should be made in Larian’s style; they should have respected the history and source material and not dispensed with so much of what makes those games legendary.
Thirdly on what basis are Larian considered the most popular RPG developer?
I was going to say exactly these things, so I'll just agree completely.
My expectations may vary from others expectations. There are indeed a few things I'd like to see that are not yet or may never be included in the game. That TO ME does not mean they aren't listening to us. Others can choose to interpret Larians words on feedback as they will. Time for wine.
