Originally Posted by Wormerine
Originally Posted by mrfuji3
I mean, it can still stand for "computer" and just be terribly named. As I understand it, originally it stood for Computer but has since shifted (in some people's view) to mean Classic or old-school?
I don't see how what "c" means would be relevant. cRPG is a term from certain period of time to refer to certain type of an RPG. When people use cRPG it is precisely because they want to distinguish the game from what RPGs became. It's a bit like arguing if "j" in jRPGs stands for japanese, if there are jRPGs not made in Japan. That doesn't matter. jRPGs was coined to represent certain type of games, and that is what this term means.

Is Dragon Age: Origins a cRPGs? I don't think so. It is a call back to those games, but at the same time it is a very shallow one and it's extremely restrictive with interaction it allows for, very unlike cRPGs of old. You can't really role-play or make active decision about your characters. You can't turn on NPCs unless it's part of a script - it's a narrative adventure, with MMO like combat. RPG, perhaps, but far from recreating a cRPG experience that would respect player decisions and imputs.

I see D:OS2 and BG3 as games that are true to cRPG principles, even if I don't like their focus and priorities. To me they are missing the point of the genre, a bit like Pathfinder games, but the fact that they lack in aspects for which I enjoy cRPGs doesn't mean they are something different. Though I would describe them as coop cRPGs if I wanted to be precise, as I think it neatly highlights their unique nature.

I also don't think we get THAT many cRPGs to really need to find an individual term that would perfectly incapsulate every single one. Just as Fallout1&2, Baldur's Gates or Planescape have very different strenghs, weaknesses and focuses but they are still cRPG. PoE, Pathfinder, Wasteland, D:OS2/BG3 are very different cRPGs, but they are cRPGs nonetheless. Larian came up with their own designs, style and structure, but being original or new doesn't necessarily make them something else.

Originally Posted by mrfuji3
And then games like Solasta and Wasteland 3 might be another type of cRPG: (tactical) Combat RPGs!
Solasta advertises itself as "Turn-Based Tactical RPG", so yeah. I also wouldnt' call Icewind Dale 1&2 a cRPG as I think they lack a lot of social/role-playing aspect that I would expect of a cRPGs. From what I played of Wasteland3 it seemed like a proper cRPG, no?

Edit. I always post to early. I would argue that computer Role-Playing Game is a great term for all those titles. Those are games that attempt to translate an experience of playing a table-top Role-playing game in a form of a computer game, sometimes using licenced system (D&D, Pathfinder) or using a custom one (Fallouts, PoE).

That is the core difference from other RPGs - like Dragon Ages, Witchers, Mass Effects and in general all post D&D Bioware games. They have some aspects of RPGs - quests with choices to make and perhaps reactivity, vertical progression, some combat customisability - but overall those are minor elements of the game. Witcher3 is mostly an open world action adventure, Mass Effect is mostly a narrative third person shooter. Dragon Age: Origins I think is the most of a hybrid thing, but I still think it is too controlling of player actions to count as a cRPG - it lacks the player initiative, and character build impact.

Sorry about the double-post but I didn't see your post until after I'd made mine. To address your first point about the 'c' in crpg being relevant, I think it's relevant as far as everyone having a baseline understanding of what everyone else is talking about. I always get a little annoyed when I think about how broad and innefective the rpg title is at communicating the various subgenres it tries to refer to. But that's just a minor quibble.

My main question is this; you posit that Dragon Age: Origins isn't a crpg but BG3 is. And you also say that Pathfinder and Pillars of Eternity are crpgs. I feel like BG3 is more restrictive of my character than DA:O, and DA:O is far closer to PoE and Pathfinder. I'm curious what you're seeing in BG3 that I'm not. Note that I myself consider both BG3 and DA:O crpgs, for whatever that's really worth in practice.