Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback A new reaction system & real time with pause elements

At this point, it is clear, that many people are unhappy with the current reaction system and its inflexibility.

I may toggle the shield spell on to protect my fragile wizard, only to get attacked by a weak goblin, block the attack, and then not be able to do anything against the big minotaur hit that comes next. Effects like cutting words have been buffed to circumvent this problem to stay for the entire turn, but the issues remain.

Many have as a consequence asked for an active reaction system. After every hit from the Paladin, a pop up menu comes down, asking you if you want to smite. For bards, there are pop up menus after every attack roll, skill check, saving throw etc.
That slows down the game substantially.

Here is my proposal:
Bring back some real time with pause elements. You can either toggle a reaction on so that it automatically happens if the conditions apply (if a wizard is hit, cast shield), OR, as the default mode, assign one button as the reaction button.

If the enemy attacks my character (or any other action happens), while the animation plays, I can press the button (space for example) and the animation stops. Then a pop up menu comes down with all the options for reactions.

Then, I do not have to click away a smite (y/n) pop up menu after every single hit, but only if I choose to smite. Bards do not have to click away a reaction menu after literally anything that happens, but rather, they can flexibly decide what ability check, attack roll etc they want to apply their inspiration to.

This avoids both the issue of the game slowing down immensely, but keeps the flexibility of the reaction system of a game like Solasta. This would also allow Larian to implement the reaction abilities (cutting words etc) as they are in the PHB without having to change them to rebalance them.

Tl;dr:
- Assign one button as the reaction button
- If you press the button during an animation, a pop up menu appears with all the possible reactions
- Keeps flexibility and PHB faithfulness of a game like Solasta, without being drowned in pop up menus
- Might even make some BG purists, who complain about the real time with pause system happy

Let me know what you think!
Good compromise for Larian?

This is my first post on this forum, so it may be that the post has to be moved etc.
Thank you for being understanding, and I hope you like my idea

Please let me know your thoughts about my idea for a new reaction system!

First of all there is some kind of reaction rework incoming so hopefully we will be seeing it soon.

What you describe is a surprisingly common suggestion. I don't like the idea - mixing turn-based and dexterity based gameplay always feels unpleasant to me, and I think people underestimate how much it would slow the game down to give players a window of opportunity to manually trigger reactions. It would need to be made clear that players HAVE an opportunity to trigger reaction, so the combat would need to be slowed down anyway to give player windows of opportunity to react. I am also of belief that popups wouldn't slow down things much as long as they are easy to dismiss (like just pressing O button on gamepad, or RMB). Making the whole suggestion potentially very costly to implement and troublesome with no clear benefit that I can see.


Personally, I think the current implementation sucks for reactions and reactions alone - by that I mean actions that player can take in response to what enemy does. I can't imagine those working well, without a popup system. Stuff that is initiated by the player, so - so stuff like sneak attack, smite etc. - is to me acceptable with some streamlining. Player decides when and on whom to use it already, so while some depth is lost, and that is a shame, but it is in player's control.

Very fair. In Solasta, I did think it slowed things down, and Solasta is very combat focused. In BG3, there are skill checks everywhere. I would not like a full Solasta system...

In an implementation like mine, the reaction times would stay as they are now imo, I doubt they would want to redo all combat animations. Maybe that is too short, I don't know.

I don't think you would have to indicate it. In the current system, they are not indicated either (I played my entire first playthrough without finding the option to toggle on/ off great weapon master, opportunity attacks etc, no clue how I missed that ^^). The feature says "If you are hit with an attack...". Imo no further indicator is needed

And of course the system would be optional, you could simply not use active reactions and always toggle on the automatic version (shield spell when hit, bardic inspiration spent when you attack etc)

The last time I played camera often struggled to keep up with enemy actions. I would be rather frustrated if I was expected to make an informed decision (or even make any decision at all) when I can't even see what is happening. And even if the parties involved are on screen the game is not geared toward showcasing who attack who - the window of opportunity for the player to understand who is being attacked and react before the attack lands would be impossibly small. At what point could we trigger the reaction UI? When the enemy starts moving and we have no clue whom he is targetting? When the attack animation triggers? (if ranged, then again, we don't know whom the enemy is attacking? Or in the very brief window before the attack lands?

Yes, but as we established current system isn't very good. What you suggest would require players to know by heart rules of the game (when can reactions can be used) and then manually trigger them with no help or reminder from the game itself to get ANY benefit of the system. At the very least the game would need a flashing button prompt so the player can know that something can be pressed but I do believe the combat animations would need to be reworked, to give couple seconds long window of opportunity for the player to react, once it is know who is attacking who. And what if couple reactions get triggered at once? (like multiple attacks of opportunity) How does one intuitively trigger one but not the other? It honestly sounds to me like a worse implementation than we have now. Right now we have no control over reactions, with your suggestion getting any use of it would be tricky.

I can understand where you're coming from, sort of, but the issue here is that you're suggesting that the actual combat flow itself - the animations as taken - would need to be slowed down sufficiently enough to allow a reasonable window for players to see what is happening and react to whether they wish to prompt for a reaction or not.

You'd be doing this Universally. If you don't slow everything down enough, then it doesn't provide a sufficient window for players to react, and is a brutally unfriendly system that punishes players for taking a moment to think, or for not knowing the rules by heart. You're basically suggesting that they slow down the entire game substantially, in order to avoid a prompt that could be resolved much more quickly, and only shows up when it's relevant - even if that's often it won't be as often as a universal slow down of all situations that could be reacted to in some way.

What you're suggesting Would slow do the game down immensely.

What you're suggesting is that the game give a window of opportunity for a player to react - but without telling them if they actually can, or what they can react with - as opposed to doing that exact same thing when only when it is relevant and with the necessary supporting information supplied.

With the discourse that discusses how a prompting system might work and what options may be available, a strong suggest has been that one of the options be that the prompts have a time window; that they appear while the animation plays, slowing down to a terminus point, and either (depending on player option preference) times out and continues with no reaction, or pauses and waits for a decision. People who pick quickly would experience no slow down at all, and those who wish to think can. this sounds to match mostly what you want, or are suggesting, but it comes as part of an actual prompted reaction system.

I dont like it ...
BG-3 was since its beginning presented as Turn-based game ... i see no reason to go against that. :-/
And this whole time, this whole game, is build around "take your time, the game WILL wait for you" ...

This suggestion goes against both, so i dont think it should be even concidered. :-/
Sory.

in single player stopping combet to ask what you want to do will slow things down ... in multiplayer where the guy drops their network or just goes afk to get a coffee it stops the game from running at all

imo people that want pen and paper rules should stick to non computer games

Again, as always, this is false.
It has been actively demonstrated to be false.
It is hyperbole and assumption made by people who speak without knowing based on what they presume would be the case, without evidence, and it's a complete fallacy.

This. Is. Not. True.

It doesn't slow things down, and in demonstrations has been shown to enhance the flow of combat, smooth game-play and speed up combat encounters overall by virtue of the weight of tactical flexibility it allows.

Videos have been posted that demonstrate this.

I wish, absolutely wish, that people would stop repeating this complete nonsense as though it were some kind of valid truth when it is demonstrably not - and has BEEN demonstrated not to be.


This is completely irrelevant and has no impact or bearing on a reaction system in any way - because if another player drops connection or goes afk AT ANY POINT the same issue arises, since you end up waiting on that player. It is completely unrelated to reactions at all and is a pointless strawman of a complaint.

In multiplayer scenarios that have been tested the Absolute Biggest sink of time that leave other players twiddling their thumbs and waiting with nothing to do happens during other players turn, while that other player messes around fighting the UI, trying to move where they want and face where they want, and trying to target their spells with the clunky design and antagonistic camera, and generally while other players take time deciding what they want to do with their turns... THAT time-sink is so far and away the biggest hold up so much so that it blows all other delays completely out of the water and renders them insignificant... and the only thing that a functioning reaction system changes about that is that it happens LESS because combats are over FASTER due to more precise reactions and better tactical control. Players also reported fewer moments when they felt bored or less engaged, because these times were mixed in with moments when they could do something outside of their own turn.

Good grief.
The Larian Baldurs gate 3 community HAS to be the most ANTI Baldur's gate and D&D people I have ever seen! This is incredibly ironic.

I think that is a very good idea adding this real time element to a reaction system.
Speaking of slowdown, I would say the BIGGEST slowdown in the entire game are all the tier 3 cinematic dialogues that you must go through. It gets annoying very fast. I really wish these would be over-world base dialogues ( as in BG2, DOS2...). Or at least the option to switch. The only time this happens is during minor animal dialogues, if I am not mistaken?

I would like to say that I don't disagree with your sentiment, but I do think as a whole it would be good if as a community we stopped generalizing so much. There are some BG3 community members who are loud and proud who, I totally agree, are VERY anti Baldur's Gate and D&D 5e. This game IS supposed to be 5e and Baldur's Gate, but many in the community get upset if the game has too much of both.

This is to be expected, though. Because you have so many Larian fans who aren't D&D fans, they want a game that is more DOS than D&D.

I would also like to say that in my experience multiplayer doesn't stop or drag if a player suddenly drops. Control goes to the host. Has this changed? So I agree with Niara. Why would this even be a reaction problem? That makes no sense.

And finally, as Niara also said, having reactions with popups creates more player control in combat. The whole point of a proper reaction system is to provide players with choice DURING enemy turns so you aren't just picking your nose helplessly watching enemies beat up your PCs. So I don't understand the resistance to reactions that allow players more strategy in combat.

I think one of the main problems is that some people see "that might not work well in a video game" as being anti-D&D and anti-Baldur's Gate 3.

For example - a true D&D experience would be if there are 37 players/enemies on the screen every single one of them should take a turn, display the dice rolls, etc. That is the correct way to do it, but it takes an eternity and for the wider video game audience it is a pain. So I personally think that Larian's system of "trash mobs" all taking turns at once is a good idea, even though it isn't pure D&D in its implmentation.

I also agree with others in this thread that I think they should have a toggle for this. To turn on a more detailed reaction system vs. something more automated. No clue which one I'd use since I would have to play with both to see which one felt right. But I can definitely see the argument of mass pop-ups making combat take an eternity... though I personally find the current reaction system makes all reaction based skills kind of useless, so I just avoid them... which also seems bad.

Hmmm. No. I have several issues with your comments.

1. "that might not work well in a video game" as being anti-D&D and anti-Baldur's Gate 3. This just isn't true. It's not about who is pro or against D&D or BG. I have been on this forum for 2 years and have not seen any players accuse others of being anti-D&D or BG because someone says something might not work in a video game. I've seen them fight for D&D 5e, myself included, I've seen them say that they think someone is wrong and that it actually WILL work in a video game, but I have never seen someone accuse someone else of being anti-D &D or BG because they think something won't work in a video game.

2. I've NEVER played a D&D session with 37 players/enemies. Ever. That is SO extreme and not the correct way to do it in anyone's book that I have ever seen or heard of.

3. In a video game, turns go faster because you don't have to math or track things yourself, so more enemies and allies doesn't take as long as pen and paper. It might still take a while, but it is in no way the same.

4. Who is complaining about the BG3 mob move and act feature? I thought this was about reactions?

5. Solasta has proven that popups really don't make combat take forever. The worst popups in that game have nothing to do with reactions.

1. That is literally what just happened in the post you included above. Someone said it will slow the game down too much and that this is a video game, not table top... and someone said they were anti-D&D/BG. So it does happen - it literally just happened.

2. It was an extreme example to make a point - obviously.

3. I... don't know where you think I'd disagree with that?

4. Again - this was an example of how something that isn't EXACTLY like D&D doesn't mean it is anti-D&D. I didn't say anyone was complaining about it?

5. I didn't say the system would be bad. I literally said I hope they add both systems and let people choose?

You say you have several issues with what I said, but it doesn't seem like you actually read what I said?

Hmm. I must say, I misunderstood. I'm sorry. It does seem that I was reading too fast and didn't understand fully what you were saying. My bad. Serves me right for trying to do too many things at once. Also, reading too fast seems to have been my issue on the first point - and also extremism. To say never... Shame on me.

So, I would like to retract my post. 😊

All good!

When I read your respond I was like... wat?