Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Making Long Rests Meaningful In Terms Of Story

The way Long Rests are currently implemented is quite contradictory due to the substantial amount of story content locked behind them and how easily that content is missed or never even experienced if the player immerses fully into the story.

• From a gameplay perspective, the game encourages the player to extensively Long Rest all the time even when they don't need to rest, in order to experience all of the companion interactions and dream sequences.
• From a story perspective, the story discourages wasting time due to how wonderfully it instills fear into the player by portraying the effects of ceremorphosis so intricately and applying the imaginary pressure of time through Lae'zel and others.

So the story and the mechanic end up clashing against each other and ruining both aspects of the game, thus creating a problem.

• By extensively resting in order to talk with our companions, we're slightly breaking the immersion of the story and going against the pressure of time.
• And by extensively not resting, we are permanently missing out on some scenes and by continuing to do so missing out on 50% of substantial story content, thus breaking the flow of the story and not building a relationship with our companions.

One of the main problems with this is the fact that Long Rests provide only one companion scene per rest while at the same time some scenes can only occur before certain events, such as entering the Grove or talking to Zorru.

So in order to experience these scenes and assuming the player obtains Shadowheart, Lae'zel, Gale and Astarion before getting to the Grove, we'd need to throw story immersion out the window and consecutively rest several times to witness Shadowheart's and Lae'zel's scenes specifically meant before getting to the Grove. And the problem is the area is so small and trivial in terms of difficulty and length, that the player can go through the entire content of the Nautiloid crash and the entire Grove without resting a single time whatsoever, thus permanently missing out on some unique scenes.

Because right now it looks like this after gathering all four companions after the crash:

• Rest - Talk to Gale (Eleasis 21st)
• Rest - Talk to Shadowheart (Eleasis 22nd)
• Rest - Talk to Lae'zel (Eleasis 23rd)
• Rest - Talk to Astarion (Eleasis 24th)
• Eleasis 25th - Finally experienced pre-Grove unique dialogue

.

So to make Long Rests less illogical and contradictory to the story immersion;

• Why not make make all companions who wish to talk with us available, instead of only one per rest.
• Why not make a simple conversation indicator that replaces the REST button whenever someone in the camp wishes to speak with us, so the player knows there is content in the camp.

This way the player;

• Would not be afraid of missing out on meaningful companion dialogue if there is an indicator telling us that someone wishes to speak with us in the camp
• Would not need to consecutively spam Long Rests to experience companion interactions as multiple companions would be able to talk with us during a single Long Rest
• Would severely reduce the amount of Long Rests required to experience companion stories and make it more immersive with the story
• Would make the Long Rests less frequent and more spaced in-between content

Because in my current playthrough 37 days have passed since the Nautiloid crash (From 20th of Eleasis to 27th of Eleint). Also I think they misspelled the Eleint month.

However at least half of those days were before I even left the Grove and not a single day spent was a Full Rest, only Partial Rests because I didn't wish to miss any story content and never even need to rest.

Long Rests allowing every companion to speak with us in a single rest and having an indicator that replaces the REST button while exploring, so we know when they wish to talk.


Long Rests clearly indicating when a camp scene involves all companions present (such as the discussions about dreams and events)

+1 It's a bit of a heavy handed solution, and usually I would advocate for a more thorough solution, but at this point, I think this is the best one could hope for.

I would worry we could run into Dragon Age: Origins situation, where I would be reluctant to go to camp to spend the next hour of gameplay slogging through repetitive companion exposition and biography dumps, but BG3 cutscenes have been short and snappy so far, so even stacking multiple in one rest shouldn't be an issue.

Yea a little replacement of the resting icon would be nice - Obviously not a fix to other underlying criticism-worthy things but for sure is a low cost quality of life improvement.

+1

Not going to lie, this is probably one of the main issues I have with the game, having to rest multiple times to make sure I don't miss anything before progressing "the main" story or before big events so to say will be bothersome. Atleast in EA I sort of know when my companions have something to say but I'll worry I'll be spamming rest alot in unknown content at release because I have no idea when something interesting is going to happen!

Also for players who have no idea how the companion dialogue system works might miss out on a bunch of story if there's no notifications when one your companions wants to talk.

+1

SWTOR uses icons on character portraits when a character wants to talk, which works well.

Just to mention, right now, as of the current patch 8, you can get multiple companion scenes in one rest.

Usually, you'll only get one exclamation point, but if you talk to the other characters they'll sometimes have scenes for you also. Even though they didn't display an exclamation point because someone else did.

For example, you can get things like Gale's "go to hell" scene and his vanity grooming scene even when he doesn't have the exclamation point. Things like that all over. Even Astarion's star gazing scene and looking in the mirror scene.

I usually try to talk to all of my companions each rest. And I do so multiple times until their conversation has reverted back to the generic lines.

+1 You have my full support on this!


True, however :
- This is not consistent. Sometimes, we get the other dialogues, sometimes we don't.
- This is not intuitive at all. Especially because of the lack of visual indicator.
- This sometimes causes some repeats in dialogue. For instance, I had the stargazing scene with Astarion and then the one with Laez'el. The later appeared again on the next long rest.
- They implemented a system where the order in which we talk to the companions is important and leading to missing some important exchange. This feels a bit arbitrary and unfair to me. Especially on blind playthrough. How do you know that the order in important? How do you know which one to talk to first? The story we have with our companions should not be sacrificed for "replay value" (if that's the argument). The existence of multiple classes/races/paths manages that.

Edit: I missed that reply :
Same!

I agree. Unfortunately this isn't a fix to the resting mechanic as a whole, it's more of a way to make it less of a contradiction between itself and the story. Personally I'd love to see the resting mechanic entirely re-envisioned so it perfectly feels cohesive with everything else, but I don't wish to expect major revisions of features so I try to see what could make the current mechanics better in their current state.


Yes, unfortunately same fear here. I love the story and especially love the companions, so I do not want to miss any sort of interaction with them.


Oh I'm aware. I talk to every single one each time there is a dialogue prompt, and I talk twice because they also have dialogues sometimes after the initial dialogue.

Though it's quite unintuitive in some cases. For example after the very first dream sequence; you have to ignore Shadowheart's prompt and instead talk to Lae'zel and Astarion. Because otherwise the game quite literally cuts off their entire dialogue if you talk to Shadowheart or Gale first, not to mention you lose approval with Shadowheart, Lae'zel and Astarion. Afterwards Gale's and Shadowheart's dialogues still fully play out, however you entirely lose dialogue choices for them.

Also in the celebration scene when everyone wants to initiate romance, you have to ignore the prompt and talk with Lae'zel first if you wish to flirt with all companions at once. Otherwise Lae'zel will not even want to flirt with you.

I really dislike that the game does this secretly depending on who we first talk to, despite who has the prompt. Because I'd prefer to fully talk with all of them without having to stick to a certain order.

As MelivySilverRoot also mentioned, it is very important to know the order in which you have to talk to companions otherwise the game takes away dialogue.

I have a couple of issues with this. Having a lot of conversations take place in one bulk makes the artificial mechanic more obtrusive and obvious, nor does concentrating talk make for fun gameplay. Anything that gives the feel of a "talk/quest starter hub" tends to kill fun for me.

Why lock *all* this content to the camp at all? That is such a obtusely artificial gameplay mechanic! Instead having it occur more spread out, both in time and locations, makes for more believable gameplay and avoids the need to lock the content behind frequent camp rests - which leads to the narrative dissonance that has plagued the game since start of EA.

I thought this was going to be beating a dead horse, and I would be surprised except Crimsomrider's post are usually well though out and very detailed.

I think this is a great suggestion regardless of thoughts on the related rest issues.

Making the camp the centre of companion interactions makes perfect sense from purely narrative point of view: downtime when characters relax after a day of adventuring is a very natural place for place party interactions. It also integrates resting with other aspects of game, and Larian might be worried how their existing audience will react to a new system that is long rest. You also avoid a very awkward thing from BG2 where conversations would trigger at the most inopportune of places and moments.

There is also a production advantage, as with pre-set enviroment devs can craft cinematics for those interactions - try to make those trigger anywhere on the map and you don't have a propt nor "stage" to work with, not to mention having to deal with objects obstructing the camera and all the other stuff you get to see when you try to engage in conversation with roaming NPCs. Really, they are just doing the same thing as other modern cinematic heavy RPGs are doing.

Unfortunately, Long Rest in BG3 isn't quite like, lets say Normandy in Mass Effects, which acts as a hub from which player accesses locations and missions - and amount of visits to the camp in BG3 could vary between players greatly.

Edit. As we talk about QoL UI changes to enhance conversations: The yellow exclamation point over characters when they have special conversation are a hit or miss for me. Usually they are fine, but with a bright background (like in the Druid Grove) it happens for me to miss those - and then they pop into view once I initiate a move order, but then it's too late and they dissapear. I would appreciate something more visible. A stronger outline perhaps? A sound que? Perhaps a companion saying "can we chat for a moment?"

Agree!

I agree with you and it was taken into consideration when I was writing this feedback. However no matter how the issue is approached, there will always be a downside because it's just how the resting mechanic is implemented currently. So all it comes down to is choosing the lesser evil;

• Having one interaction per rest to experience less of the story, but require to do significantly more consecutive rests to experience it fully and risk potentially missing out on it due to story progression.
• Having several interactions per rest to experience more of the story, but require significantly less rests to experience it and not risk potentially missing out on story content.

So no matter how it is approached, there will always be a downside and the only question is which is the lesser evil. I'd love for them to re-envision the resting mechanic so it feels properly cohesive and dynamic, but I do not know whether they intend to reinvent or not. So this is more of a feedback based on its current implementation, to make it less contradictory with itself in case they do leave it as it is.


Well said, especially the part about the amount of visits that can vary between players. I unfortunately fell into the same hole as many others have, where I avoided the resting mechanic entirely due to story immersion and ended up never seeing the story behind it. As a new player at the time it was a terrible first experience that felt incredibly shallow because I missed so much.

And yes, the yellow prompts are easily missed in certain sunny parts of the map, but I assume they will visually improve is. At least with a black outline so it stands out more. Personally I'd love if companions would say something in the sense of "We need to talk at the camp/I'd like to speak with you in the camp". It'd be immersive. I thought their lines about being tired and needing rest were meant for exactly that, but evidently not.

No reason, you could just as easily gate it behind quests and map locations so many different ways. They just picked Dragon age camping system but they have no expirance in it.

Due to this inexperience all sorts or problems came knocking.

+1 While I hope we will get to experience, before actual end game, some time period where we won't have this sense of looming, imminent death hanging over us, in EA and first chapter... game *story* says we ought to hurry or else our skulls will split open, but game dialogue *mechanics* are designed towards players taking their sweet time.

I don't get the "only one unique companion dialogue per long rest* idea they implemented.

It is a problem. I missed at minimum of 40 percent of the content on my first play through. Now that the minimum long rests to experience all long rests went up. I feel like I miss out on 80 percent of content as I average at 8 long rests a play through.

I REALLY find it hard to long rest frequently on current playthroughs, and I am having to really force myself to do so in order to see if any new dialogue content has been added. It's VERY unfun.

+1 very great suggestion

I would prefer it if the story was divorced from the resting system entirely.

I tend to take 4-5 long rests per play-through and even though I've put in over 1000 hours in early access I've never heard a full companion backstory.
It wasn't until I started playing online with friends that I knew there were dream sequences other than Raphael.

If I'm role-playing my character, and not testing, my first long rest is after I rescue Haslin as that's when you find out the tadpole is different and you won't wake up as a Mind Flayer.

As long as the story is convincing the characters that resting is bad then advancing the story shouldn't be tied to resting, IMHO.

While I could be wrong (and I hope that I'm), I doubt they would change the strong linkage that exists between the story and long rests.

The dialogue often implies that they are about to sleep for the night or that they just woke up. So, in order to not have those cutscenes tied to the long rests, the dialogues would need to be changed as well.

In addition to trowing away potentially weeks/months of work, changing dialogues means redoing a bunch of VA and animation. Which takes time and money, and the game is supposed to come out in 2023 (Larian Studios has confirmed this). I would also be surprised if they made such a big change without giving any hint (like with the reaction system revision).

The suggestions made by OP seem more doable when taking into account all of those things.
Not perfect, but given the situation, a good compromise.

Those suggestions were made 3 month ago. I hope they had to time to take that into consideration for the upcoming patch.
I would really like to see that "ludo-narrative dissonance" addressed 🤞

I agree One really needs to spam long rests to check/unlock new cutscene OO