Originally Posted by mrfuji3
Originally Posted by azarhal
Which is really the entire problem with the discussions in this thread. Way too many people think:
- evil = murdering everything that move
- good = helping people and being nice
- neutral = money, money, money

That's not how D&D define the alignments. The D&D alignment system was based off virtues. Lying fall under evil, even if you are doing it for a good cause under D&D alignment system.
You can somewhat blame Larian for this way of thinking. In BG3, a significant (arguably the dominant) reason to go with the "evil" route is essentially "I like murdering innocents!" (Or, "I'm willing to murder innocents for the chance to sleep with a hot drow babe.")

I strongly disagree with your last statement. Lying is not an inherently Evil thing in D&D. If anything, it's an inherently Chaotic thing to do, but I wouldn't even go that far. Lawful characters can lie, as long as they're still following their code. E.g., a Lawful Paladin lies to a criminal, saying that their sentence won't be that harsh, resulting in the criminal surrendering peacefully rather than fighting and possibly harming innocents. The Paladin then turns the criminal over to judges and advocates for an (appropriately) harsh sentence: "Criminals must pay the appropriate price for their crimes. And they don't deserve the truth."

Larian isn't to blame. The goblins path is the story evil path, aka the path where the bad guys (the Absolute) win. It's not the path evil characters must take to show they are evil. A cleric/paladin of an evil god or any evil characters who aren't interested in become lackeys to the Absolute has zero reasons to join up with Minthara and her gang. They should just ignore both groups and move on, but as an evil cleric/paladin massacring the goblins and their leaders is a much better approach since destroying other gods worshippers is part of the job. That it save the grove is just collateral damage, but then you can also kill the grove and the goblins so...

Paladins with Oaths of Devotion can't tell lies, "tell no lies" is one of their oath. They are based off the classic pre-5e Paladins. A Paladin of Vengeance would just chop that criminal's head off instead so no need to lie there either....

Last edited by azarhal; 14/12/22 05:37 PM.