Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Paladins : where are the tenets (where is the lore)?

Given that 5e paladins rely on their oath for their power, it seems a bit odd that the tenets are nowhere to be found during the Character Creation

I mean, personally, I did only got interested in the paladin class after reading the Tenets of the Ancients 😅.

So, my suggestion is : could we please add more lore to the Character Creation?

Or could we, maybe, have our Tavs start the game with a book in the inventory containing some lore related to the selected class? At least where it could make sense (like the paladin keeping a copy of the tenets on them).

I'm glad you made this thread because it's an issue I was feeling a way about. Especially since the oathbreaker paladin is the table, it is frankly baffling to me that they don't set out our paladin's tenets right from the beginning. It kinda defeats the purpose in my opinion.

I want my Tenets to be part of my character ...
Idealy part of description when i mouseover my Oath in character screen.

I tend to play many characters ... and have this listed somewhere where i can remind myself any time i start the game would be most helpfull.

+1 Yes, that would be helpful indeed.

I didn't mentioned that in the initial post, but, players aren't necessarily familiar with D&D and even those who are won't necessarily be familiar with the 5th or know its rules by heart. I mean, Larian probably knows that but, it's worth mentioning/reminding 😄

Also ...
I wonder if it wouldnt be too much to ask for some kind of warning sign in dialogue ... something small and subtle like:

Warning: Picking this option goes against your Oath!

What do you think?

//Edit:
I mean, you all know that there are people like myself, whos skill in English are deep below awerage ... and often missunderstand the meaning behind words. :-/
This would help reduce lots of misspicked reloads i think.

I think something like that would be almost essential. Maybe having it be displayed could be an optional thing? Like how crpgs usually let you choose if you want to see the tags showing background/morality/etc related options.

hahaha I like the subtlety😄

I don't know yet how I feel about this, to be honest. The way the "breaking the oath" feature seems to work did make me less enthusiastic about playing the class (I'm a good paladin, not a lawful one). But I don't know if that's just a "me" problem (how I envisioned the class clashing with "reality" or at least how it's depicted/implemented here) and/or something that could be improved by the game. I still need to figure that out.
I'll probably just go back to the "Chaotic Good" cheeky Bard that I like on my "canon" playthrough ^^ (instead of multiclassing bard/paladin)

edit : the language barrier is certainly a good argument I think.


Yeah, if I had to suggest something right now, it would be to at least have the option. But again, I still need to continue my paladin playthrough 😅

The main thing I agree on when it comes to this stuff is...

There should be more information on the character creation screen about what classes/subclasses/races are all about.

I posted the tenets in the other thread, so I won't post them here, but the main thing I have a problem with is that they've set up the "rules" for your paladin breaking their oath, which seem to be based on the tenets of the devotion paladin, but made universal to all paladins, which is not great. Not all paladins are devotion Paladins and the way it's set up now means that the more neutral or evil paladin subclasses (if we ever get them), like vengence, conquest, or glory will be held to the same standards as a devotion Paladin, which is wrong.

Add on to that, they've already put in sneaky allowances into some conversations so you can lie but you don't break your oath. Even though you've still lied, and lying is against your oath in all other circumstances. I noticed they took away the fishermen by the injured illithid too, I can only assume that a lot of paladin play-testers ended up as oathbreakers after failing to check their way out of fighting, and the game treats knocking them out as killing them.

Also you can become an oathbreaker after one bad decision? Seems a bit melodramatic, and not in a fun way.

+1 to the tenets being displayed in the Character creation and in the character tab

I agree.
The tenets should be shown in the game and also at character creation.
They should be different for different paladin classes.


bonus question:
Do oathbreakers have tenets and can you break them?
Whats then, are you an oathbreakerbreaker and you have the tenet that you must break every promise you make

No oath for the oathbreaker (according to the Dungeon Master’s Guide : Source)

No, that's the whole defining point of oathbreaker, you are beholden to no oath and uphold no tenets. You make your own rules now.

So if you are Oathbreaker paladin ...
You have no Oath ...
Yet paladins get their powers from their Oath ...
So you get your powers from lacking an Oath? And how is it possible that nobody else on the world who also dont have Oath is able to draw the same power of its absence? O_o

This is quite chaotic concept.

Agreed, we need to introduce an oath for oathbreakers, as well as a new subclass called "breaker of the oath of the oathbreaker" in case you break that oath :P

I am oathly consufed.

Okay so I just happened to mouse over my Oath of the ancients paladin armor and it turns out that the tenets of the oath are embroidered into it. Kindle the Light. Shelter the Light. Preserve your own Light. Be the Light. That... is too clever by half.

"A paladin is a living embodiment of an oath - a promise or a vow made manifest in the person of a holy warrior who has the skill and the determination to see the cause through to the end. Some paladins devote themselves expressly to protecting the innocent and spreading justice in the world, while others resolve to attain that goal by conquering those who stand defiant and bringing them under the rule of law.

Most paladins in Faerûn, like clerics, are devoted to a particular deity. The most common paladin deities are those that embody action, decision, watchfulness, and wisdom. Torm and Tyr are both popular deities for paladins, as is Ilmater, who stresses self-sacrifice and the alleviation of suffering. Although less common, there are paladins of the following deities: Helm, Hoar, Lathander, Sune, Corellon Larethian, The Red Knight, Clangeddin Silverbeard, Arvoreen, and Mystra. "

<some random internet page after googling Paladins in Faerun>

Making a surprise attack against goblins evidently breaks an Oath of Devotion. It would be really nice to know what your Oath entails exactly if it breaks that easily so you can avoid it and roleplay your character properly. And if you can't ambush non-hostile enemies, the game needs to give you a "Leave this village or be killed" dialogue option. Or a "I came to rid the Realms of your kind" declaration if I just can't be allowed to surprise attack anyone. Which is it?

Also Divine Smite... which god (or virtue or whatever) is the Divine part and all the rest of the magic coming from? There was no choice. I should be able to play a Paladin of Tyr and receive dialogue options for that rather than it all being completely vague.

Another thing about playing my Paladin: I hate the playful laughter the game has my "stoic paladin" make when enemies miss. Don't hardcode personality traits into combat mechanics, please. You could, however, tie personality traits into voice sets and make a "lighthearted adventurer" voice set who does laugh to taunt their enemies or just find it hilarious when they miss.

edit: my Paladin just murdered the sleeping hobgoblin without consequence so it's also inconsistent

Maybe it's because those goblins were still counting as non-hostile? If they are ones that you are forced into conversation with, and they can become hostile at the end of the conversation (or not, if you pick different options), then the game may not be counting them as hostiles.

If it was just the random goblins in the destroyed village, they attack on sight I thought, so it makes no sense for them to be treated as non-hostiles.