Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Shove/push ruin the game and I'm angry !

Here is another complain about shove. Seriously what are you waiting for to turn it into a full action ? I really hope you will because it can really RUIN the game.

Short clip to introduce this :



Seriously it is NOT fun !
Sure I could smile, laugh a lot, reload and hope that my characters will resist next time ! But it does not make me laugh AT ALL. It is really infuriating and this is just ONE combat (probably the worst of all).
The only possibility Larian gives us in this combat is LUCK and luck being the only reason for a victory/defeat in a tactical turn based game just SUCK.


20 goblins can just dash + shove = Insta KILL.
Minotaurs can just jump + push = Insta KILL.
Dror Razglin can just scream + push = Insta KILL.
Druergar can just shoot an arrow + push = Insta KILL.
Hooked horror can just jump + push = Insta KILL.
Bulette can jump + push = Insta KILL.
and so on, and so on, and so on. Insta KILL is everywhere.

We can even Insta KILL the Matriarch... Seriously it is so lame !

There are a lot too many possibilities to push and shove in the game and despite your """"efforts"""" to balance it, in a game with dices some players will always be frustrated like I am if you don't balance these mechanics better !

On top of that it really SUCK for melee characters ! Shove to disengage.
It SUCK for the sleep spells and sleeping potions ! Shove to wake characters up.

I don't even understand that you still didn't realize how stupid the mechanic currently is.
Sorry to write like this but I'm really annoyed !

Many players have reported EVERYWHERE (reddit, steam, here, other forums) that shove is broken since 2 years and you mostly have done nothing to solve this issue. That's a shame.

I like being able to shove and I like having to care about my position. But that's NOT what BG3 is currently offering in MANY situations.. and probably ALL situations if you haven't played the game for HOURS previsouly (metagaming).
Shove/push is just BROKEN.

It is completely :
- overpowered which may make the game a lot too easy
- it may make the game frustrating as hell
- it make some skills/spells mostly useless (sleep, sleeping potion, help,...)
- and some valuable tactics for melee characters are just completely useless (AOO, threatened ennemies,...) .

Make shove a full action for the sake of this game ! It could not be worse as it currently is !

Absolutely agree - it should be a full action and the distance needs to be further reduced (to max of 5 foot, in the right conditions)

I started talking to Nere and when I made him angry and combat started, I lost initiative badly (thank you RNG) and 2 of my party members where shoved into lava, before they could act, and died. Really....and we weren't standing right next to the lava either. The third was shot with some arrow 'pushing' attack and also ended up in the lava - all in round one ;-)

Sure, you can work around it, but the AI simply won't avoid it - it's too convenient.

Your mistake is to take Larian style combat seriously. It's supposed to be a meme. Balancing stuff makes it harder for streamers to entertain with cheap laughs and attract a larger audience.


Many things implemented by Larian is capable of breaking the game. For instance a Tiefling Thief using Flame Blade and Circlet of Fire. That's 9d6 off-hand damage probably every turn from low levels. It's fun yo! That is...unless you get shoved to death before you get a chance to start swinging of course!

Seriously though, how anti-climatic isn't that BG3 ship combat compared to the one in DOS2.

I am not so emotional about it, but I won't be very upset if it becomes an action. But! In that case - throw action becomes far superior, because it would do the same thing as shove but better (for an action). So what do you think about these alternative solutions:

1. Make shove an action but implement it properly with the prone effect. That way a successful shove results in advantage for your companions as well and can compete with throw.

2. Keep shove as a BA but halve, or even quarter the distance of the push - so that it can be a "chance to disengage" on a BA 1v1 for non-rogue classes.

Yeah with enemies that are primed to shove it seems pretty silly.

Also, can feather fall not proc on a fall? It seems like it should, since in the ttrpg it's a reaction. And it's also silly how in that video, falling into water is instant-death, as if no one in the party can swim.

Honestly, I think shoving should just be removed. That would be the easiest solution.

I'd prefer a properly implemented shove - as in the actual 5E shove - so no 1.... I like the idea of being prone, as you say this is a useful condition to inflict on an opponent.

Ah, the boat ride. Classic!

Even funnier if you learn the new tadpole power from Omeluum's tampering. Just going in-between them, popping it off and watching everyone fly. Or get unlucky and get shoved off instead. I also had the unpleasant experience of Nere shoving me into lava hahah! This whole shove stuff made me create this in response.

But yeah it's an extreme problem in certain cases, especially because of how meaningless it is with such an important combat outcome. The boat ride, Nere's lava pit and Matriarch are the worst scenarios and I'm more afraid of where I'm standing in those battles than the enemies themselves. The boat ride itself gives me PTSD though ^^

+1 to making shove a full action. I even hate jump, but that's a separate topic.

Im agree with you. You could end this fight with one action (Throw illithid orb in middle of them and they will be all grab in water). But its not fun to end a fight like that. In this EA patch9 , except this fight , enemie dont shove a lot like before , but im ok with the fact , shove is too OP.

- Shove should be an action. And dont push more than 5ft (like the rules of player handbook).

As always, seconded and agreed.

Shove as action; option to push to prone, or push 5ft. Works fine and is a tactical choice that is worth taking sometimes and not others, in certain other 5e-based video games.

You should NOT be able to disengage as a BA.
It is extremely painfull when you are playing melee characters because their most basic utility is to ENGAGE (to threathen, to force AOO, to force using melee attacks, to protect your weaker characters,...).

It's not like if the game does not already offer solutions to "disengage" :
- as a bonus action (misty step, amulet of misty step, rogues cunning action, potion of invisibility,...)
- for free (items that allow you to avoid AOO,...)
- and/or to attack even if you disengage as a full action (sorcerer quickened spell,...).



I disagree. I've been shoved A LOT. Probably as much as I have been in patch 8.
Of course metagaming is doing his job so I haven't been pushed in holes a lot... But they shove A LOT to disengage and to wake their allies up.

I personally think shove should just make a target trip and go prone with like 1-2m distance. Seeing characters in full metal plate being sent flying is comical, so I think such physics should rather remain for spells and abilities with power. Such as Lae'zel's Pushing Attack or some spells such as Thunderwave.

But definitely not as a cheap and brainless one click button that can one shot any enemy just because of gravity.

I honestly I feel that with multi attack shove is better left of as bonus action. Being shoved 1-3 times per turn by one character would only make things worse. With how powerful it is I believe a balance would call for making it full action and not part of a multiattack - I do think that its power potential is on par with spells.

In current patch I didn’t find shove distance too bad (has something changed) but the way it is implemented makes it very powerful depending on terrain (slopes can greatly increase push’s distance). I am kinda done hoping for the issue to be addressed at this point.

I agree - there are limited use skill and spells that could fill the spot without having to overtune the basic push. Larian could also add feat that would extend push distance 2x or 3x giving player who choose it a way to getting it back. They could design an encounter with enemies with powerful pushes for a one time gag.

As it is push works well for some encounter, but dominates the others.

I'm not sure I agree - once you are shoved you have been moved away from the shover - so the shoving character would have to move to shove you again, possibly invoking AoO. I assume if this was an issue, then it would have been highlighted in 5E rules already? You also have to make an opposed roll for every shove attempt (it they implementy it as per 5E, not sure what they do tbh) - you may lose, and now you have sacrificed a melee attack. Of course, if you are standing near a precipice, it maybe worth trying this 1-3 times. But I could live with that - makes sense to me at least.

What I don't like is the low cost and the ballistic nature - I was def more than 5 ft away from the lava when my 2 charcaters were shoved into it.

+1 for shove being an action. In my case, I find it annoying how it weakens Sleep.

And the examples given by OP show how it's pretty unbalanced.

Furthermore, I find that this tactic of shoving is way overused by the NPCs. It would be nice if it didn't trigger that often.

I don't like the sleep argument, sleep is already one if not the most powerful CC spell in the game. An AoE loss of action for multiple enemies without a skill check, that guarantees a crit, all that packed in a level 1 spell is already silly enough.

Sleep is working correctly - and given how dangerous (at low level only), you should happily spend an action to wake your team mate(s) - did this in Solasta all the time. In any case, that is just one example - if sleep is the issue, they can create some bonus action 'noise maker' or something to waken a party, rather than create an OP bonus action shove, which the AI uses at every oppurtunity. As it is, sleep is effectively useless if you are outnumbered, since it costs 1 BA to counter it and if you have many enemies - I was always outnumbered - they can afford spend that.

I'm mean, given the fixed hit points condition of the spell, you get to put one or two goblins to sleep (and not much other NPCs)...Not that OP. And by the time it gets back to my turn, they've been woken up by an bonus action (not action) of another hostile NPC...Which is over nerfed, in my opinion.
Also, just because a spell is very effective in certain situation, doesn't mean OP.

+1

That is the thing, sleep is effective in all situations. It is a death sentence. No save, no chance to resist, you just die. But we are moving goalpost here, I generally agree that shove should be an action.

I was pacified for nearly a week after the addition of reactions, and they did a fine job at that. However, though slowly, I began to think of Shove as a bonus action, and became angry again.