Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Shove/push ruin the game and I'm angry !

I agree it wouldn't be a problem, but i think that as things are now, simply making shove an action is preferable. Anything to be rid of the current state of affairs. I'd even prefer not having shove at all to this widespread instant death nonsense

Yeah what makes it so bad in bg3 compared to a dnd session - there is no DM you can bargain with for your character's survival. During the boat fight you can't ask for a reaction usage to cling onto the fishing net or something, waiting for some help from your allies. You just straight up fall into the abyss and die. Meh.

When you simply edit the files to make shove an action rather than a bonus action : you cannot use shove twice with multi attack.
The game just doesn't allow it.

EDIT : But it's not as simple as I thought with extra attacks. You can attack twice but you can't attack once and shove once OR you can shove... but you loose your extra attack. Damn.
Is there a skill, spell or anything else you have in mind that is locked to "once per turn" ?

EDIT 2 : I have found a mod that limits jump to 1 per turn in combat. So I guess it could be doable for shove too... I'd have to try this.

Yes, current multi-attack implementation seems a bit confused. It seems from my testing that multi attack triggers on attacks with main weapons only (including basic attack and weapon skills) - as a second attack you can use other martial skills, like throw, however starting with throw won’t grant you an extra attack. I imagine something like that would happen with full-action push.

Yes I've noticed that too with throwing weapons.
I've finally found how to be able to shove then attack... It took a long time to me but really, it takes 3 seconds when you know where to look at. BUT if I attack first I still can't use shove as an extra attack^^ Confused, as you said... But I guess it is extremely easy to do for players a bit more used to this than myself.

I agree to a certain extent but having said that I’m 447 hours in early access and I’ve only been Insta killed maybe 4-5 times & now in patch 9 at least the bodies are retrievable where before it was a bit of a pain.
I think it needs some balancing and hopefully it will get looked at - but you gotta admit potion of giant strength plus shove can be fun 🤩

It's still something you'll be able to do even if it's balanced so that no player can be killed instantly by pushing 30 times in act 1.

Yesi it’s more a novelty - I wonder if a girdle is in the game that would create mayhem….

I agree Maximuuus

I have no problem with it being a Bonus Action but it absolutely needs severe limits on its distance. Having Shove as a Bonus Action for a chance at a disengage is fine and doesn't take away from Disengage as an Action that is guaranteed. Having Shove as a Bonus Action for a chance to wake a sleeping ally is fine and doesn't take away from Help as an Action that is guaranteed. Having Shove as a Bonus Action that gives a chance to push an enemy off a ledge they are right next to is fine and doesn't take away from Throw as an Action that is guaranteed.

These are semantic "problems". The real problem behind almost every single one of these posts is extreme frustration at a fight completely turning around on a trivial mechanic that takes a character from 100% to 0% with one roll. That should simply never happen; and not for any "this is DnD and there are supposed to be rules" reason, but because it introduces a "quit moment" into an otherwise excellent game whose success revolves around its ability to entertain. The fact that you can go back and reload and try again isn't the point. The point is that these moments make you NOT WANT TO TRY AGAIN.

And anything that provokes negative emotion that strong that is not extremely limited in scope is terrible design. Period.

Well, I don't know... If, as intended, there was the "prone" effect with "Shove", then I don't find the mere adjustment of the distance sufficient. Then you would almost always use Shove to prone (for crits) + Attack Action, and to me that would be the same thing in green, as it is currently with Attack Action and Shove to death from cliff, lava, or whatever. It should be an action.

I'm going to channel another user for a moment here.Is it fine though, and doesn't it take away from Disengage? Melee characters already suffer from being unable to hold aggro in 5e. Allowing easy disengage (effectively free if one doesn't have another bonus action to use) devalues tanky martial characters even more. Bonus Action Shove allows characters to both disengage and attack/cast spell in the same turn.

Is shove not a 100% chance to wake a sleeping ally?

Throw shouldn't be guaranteed. That'd be way overpowered even without the common instant-death pits in BG3. If you have to make a roll to even hit an enemy with your sword/fists/magic, why shouldn't you have to make one (or more) rolls to physically pick them up and toss them?? Shove being better than Throw isn't saying much...

Agreed, to the extent that this is a problem (it's not the only/real problem imo). Incredibly strong abilities without large costs (e.g., a high level spell slot or a very expensive consumable) are antithetical to tactical combat.

Throwing an oppnent is not covered in the PHB 5e. (or i did not find it). Even the "frenzied throw" of the Berserker is a larian thing.

But Grappling is. To grab an opponent you do an opposing STR check (+modifiers). If you succeed you can drag them around. I am fully fine with beeing able to throw them, but the grapple check should still be needed.

I can't believe they still haven't rectified shove. It's powerful and should be a full action or taking the place of an attack on a pc with extra attack.

Has there been any update around it from Larian?

Only if you count two years of silence on that matter as quite clear message that they dont intend to change it.

Shove is broken primarily because of this ^ and that it's a Bonus Action, not to mention the ludicrous distance a shove shoves. Others here have explained why but essentially it nerfs melee characters, and one of the most useful low level spells (Sleep). People have been complaining about this since the beginning of EA but because Larian doesn't give a rat's ass about D&D RAW they probably won't fix it. They absolutely should fix this but they are that DM that overuses the "Rule of Cool" to the point it's no longer cool but annoying.

I enjoy DoS2 and I really like it's more humorous and lighthearted style of rules but D&D has a different flavor because it's RAW is more ridged and grounded, and it's been that way since it's beginnings. It's what makes D&D, well... D&D and the Larian team should respect that. However, like most people who are adapting an IP they didn't create they have little respect for what came before and feel they can do it better, even though no one asked them to. We can see it all over BG3; the Shoves, the jumps, the potions as AOE bombs, and there's probably more things I haven't encountered yet that just show Larian is more interested in making DoS3 than BG3. Will I still enjoy the game? Well so far it's fine and I'll adapt but I'd rather have BG3 be a D&D game with D&D rules and sensibilities and have all this other stuff saved for a DoS3 game I can play another time.

I don't use shove myself, and none of my experienced players do either. I agree it should be an action.

having said that, with this fight you want to use the Arrows of Roaring Thunder

Put one right in the center of that boat and watch them go flying.

Also Thunderwave is pretty great if you BA Misty Step right on top of them.

If they close the distance with you pop an Invisibility potion.

But yeah, shove also should be a full action - just like Hide for everyone but Rogue.

I use it when it's appropriate but the real issue is how the opponents use it that makes combat annoying.

Can't believe I somehow almost missed another thread and another chance to shit on how bad the current implementation of SHOVE is.
Because, yeah, it's shit.

No, I don't want to.
If a combat is so easy to win, I'd rather like them to remove it entirely so I don't waste my time.