Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Shadowheart's Armor Revisited Again

Yeah I think they should cover those or simply remove them. He's been a vampire spawn for like 200 years. You'd think they would have healed or left unrecognizable scars.

I would leave the scars, but maybe just cover them a little bit better with the ruffles of his shirt.

As for Shadowheart's armour and the association of onyx with Shar: I think we, as players, get a small hint in the game when we find an onyx gemstone. The description says "It's said when Shar walks upon the earth, she leaves a path of onyx behind her."

That is an interesting thought.

And as someone who didn't (and honestly still quite doesn't know) who Shar is it is still a problem.

First of all, we are not playing a fish out of water. Our character is a denizen of the Sword Coast and is likely to have knowledge and opinion on Shar. What player does or doesn't know is less relevant that what our character should and shouldn't know.

On top of that, in spite of what seems like obvious giveaway to those who know the lore, the game at the same time expects players to know who Shar is. Right after revealing her identity to the player the game expects player to state their opinion on the matter. Less jarring now after X number of playthroughs, but it felt realy bad to be asked to react to something that has no meaning to myself.

As I stated before it is one of those issues I would blame origins on - the game will spoil every origin companion during character creation, so one might think it is pointless to keep the pretences up. At the same time, it is narratively weak to just not even try creating believable scenarios to react to.

So you're actually buying into how the tadpole conveniently explains everything that would be challenging about vampires because of game mechanics? That's precisely what makes the writing feel weak to me. They cherry picked the vampire traits that caused probelms and explained them with a really weak plot device "because tadpole". Daylight, entering houses, crossing water.. not a problem. Drinking blood, still a "problem" because you can have a fun ability and an extremely cringe camp scene.

I'm actually still stuck on why the tadpole, a living parasite organism, would ever enter a dead body and brain in the first place. It turns a living host into a living Mind Flayer. Clearly a dead or undead body shouldn't work in the first place.

Also stuck on how a "centuries old vampire" is mechanically level 1. Oh that's right, "because tadpole" again.

They wanted a "cool" vampire companion, and conveniently ignored literally everything that makes a vampire, a vampire. This is by far the lamest vampire story I've ever witnessed. Astarion could just be a living High Elf with an evil sadistic character because of a history of abuse, and he would be a much better character for it.

Can you please share how'd you want vampire features implemented in detail - gameplay-wise and storywise. Would in your "version" of the game Astarion stand behind the door and ask for invitation? Would you only be able to travel at night? Would they need to implement boats so that you'd be able to cross a river? Or maybe a bridge building simulator? See where those emotional arguments lead you - nowhere.


Would you please elaborate what exactly you are talking about here. What is the cringe scene? How does the cause in that sentence relate to the consequence? Again, I only see emotion, no logical structure, thats why I ask for clarification.


This seems like your personal take on it. In the game there is 1 banter dialogue between Astation and Wyll and 1 cinematic dialogue which elaborate on the topic of how powerful the spawn is. And it is clearly stated that it is not very powerful and weak even, when it doesn't consume blood.


True, I even think the whole story is a very obvious copy paste from Sebille, which is like, not bad, but for someone who'd played DOS2 it can be rather repetitive. I actually think the "vampire" twist saves the day here for that audience.

Edit: don't get me wrong, I respect your opinion on the matter. It is just that you use a barrage of emotional arguments and those only create a fuss. This tactic kills any constructive discussion and devolves into "shouting opinions" and it is clearly seen through the fact that you'd ignored my previous post regarding your first emotional barrage. I don't want this thread to turn into hate speech polygon

Yes! I so agree.


Fair point! That might be enough to buy him the benefit of the doubt.


Actually, I think the implausibility of that pales in comparison to the tadpole saving us from the fall from the nautiloid. It doesn’t make a lot of sense to me that it would protect us from that and not from dying in myriad other ways. (Unless we were actually caught in some area safety effect of the nautiloid and it wasn’t the tadpole at all!)

Seriously though, I think it makes narrative as well as gameplay sense for Astarion to get some additional benefits from the tadpole, as it gives him reasons to want to keep and use it that no one else would have. But while I’m okay with the sunlight and entering houses, I do hope Larian will (re)introduce at least some of the features that could make an undead character different and interesting, such as damage from crossing water and most ordinary healing not working. I can see why they avoided this in EA as it is fiddly for a new player to manage and there’s already a limited pool of companions without the option to hire mercenaries, but fingers crossed the approach to vampire spawn powers/vulnerabilities will be more nuanced in the full game.

I saw a theory somewhere that we were saved by Kelemvor's interference here. It was all explained through Wither's hints when talking to the cleric of specific deities and some other references. I don't quite remember now, sadly, but it was quite convincing.

I hadn’t spotted that one! I’d be interested in how it explains Kelemvor saving us there and not elsewhere.

I think at least our character might believe that it’s due to the tadpole because it’s one of the post-tadpole effects that they can tell Nettie about. But so far I think I prefer the theory (that admittedly only occurred to me today) that the nautiloid is actually fitted with a levitation field safety mechanism to reduce fatalities in the event of a crash

Honestly, in my opinion if they're going to have so much trouble implementing Astarion because of his vampiric drawbacks, then the logical conclusion is that his character doesn't work as is, and they need to do another pass at him. I don't hate the tadpole removing his weaknesses, but it does make you wonder why his blood drinking is still an issue. And why Wyll remarks that he's actually weaker. It's inconsistent.


I actually think that based on what he tells us about his enslavement, Cazador purposefully left him weak despite how long he was around.

In this particular situation, I do buy into this: something/someone wants to keep our group alive (or at least undead, in Astarion's case), for reasons yet unknown, most likely because it has some plans for us or needs us. Right at the beginning of the game, we witness some force intervening and preventing our character from crashing on the beach with full speed.
If Astarion still had all his vampire traits, he could very easily be killed by sunlight and running water, so whoever seems to protect our group has a good reason to remove these traits. And not beeing able to enter a home without invitation might be very impractical, if we are indeed, like I think, still needed for something. Drinking blood on the other hand would not be an obstacle.

I think that our group is somehow different from the other tadpoled people who did not survive the crash, and I think that we were saved because we have something useful: Gale, for example, has the Netherese orb, and is a former chosen of Mystra, and the scars on Astarion's back are definitely not a poem and may have some importance. To me, this would also explain why everyone in our party is very "special".

As for Astarion being Level 1, I am very fine with that. Luring/seducing people is not a skill that has practical value when adventuring And being a magistrate is also not very helpful in this situation.

But these are just my thoughts and theories, and I love to read what other players think. Reading something written from a different perspective is always very interesting, I like the exchange of ideas 🙂

The very appeal of unusual races is impact they would have on gameplay. A good example of that done well is Bloodlines: Mascarade, where devs don’t dismiss very unique aspects of Nosferatu or Malkavians. I think it is fair to not what to do that, but then you don’t do that. Larian has a vampire spawn in name only, and it’s done in narratively unsatisfying way. If it was an isolated issue, one might let it slide, but tadpoles has been conveniently used as excuse for doing whatever Larian wants. To me, it feels in-genuine and cheap.

It took me so long to write my post that I only saw that you mentioned this after I hit "post reply". While I am writing a post, the discussion is already a few posts ahead 😅

This point has more weight when we are talking a setting more or less suitable for both unusual and generic races. In case of BG3 vampires and spawns clearly have to be special in one or the other way to be able to traverse the land under the sun. Should it be the tadpole though, for all of our companions? That one is controversial, I agree.

Lol, no.

How about not including a playable vampire at all? If it's just a stapled on teen goth love interest for the sake of having one, in a story that's about something different entirely.

Games that do vampires right tend to have their entire story and gameplay revolve around them. Larian's problem is they think they can get away with anything, and that more is more. With BG3 they are being held to a higher standard than some goofy DOS2.

Honestly, I' d better have another backstory other than a vampire myself - was never interested in that creature type much. But I need to give credit to the character's personality and the VA does an amazing job. I think that making him a high elf like you've suggested wouldn't rob the players of anything, for example the bite scene could be replaced with an attempt to rob you or kill you and could be even more tense. But vampiric backstory also has something interesting going for it, here I can agree with Lyelle's points.

My characters have less dramatic backstories, too


I agree, Neil Newbon does an amazing job, he seems to have had a lot of fun playing this character. I think all of the voice actors are very good, the acting is one of my favourite parts of the game.

Due to his personality, I think Astarion's character would be just as interesting if he were a regular high elf rogue. The vampire aspect is not what makes him an interesting character for me, but his backstory as a vampire might add something very interesting.

I don't think Cazador just coincidentally found him, almost dead, I think they knew each other before that. Astarion says he was working as a magistrate in Baldur's Gate, and maybe they had some shady dealings involving prisoners (this could explain why the group of Gur were so furious with him that they beat him up to the brink of death). Ironically, Astarion then ended up as a slave to Cazador himself.

Learning about his past could present our character with an interesting moral dilemma, especially if our Tav has a friendly or even romantic relationship with him. He had been Cazador's victim in the past 200 years, but he had also been a perpetrator before (if this were indeed his backstory).
Since he seems to remember little about his past, this could be a bit comparable to Shadowheart's mind-wipe, although maybe inversed: I think Shadowheart might have been a Selûnite, and has forgotten a "good" past, Astarion has forgotten an "evil" past (though as for being "nice" now, there's still some room for improvement ).

This is of course just (wild) speculation on my part, based on the snippets of information we got so far. Maybe it's completely different - I am curious to find out.
Up until then, I give Larian the benefit of the doubt that Astarion is not just a Hot-Dark-Vampire-Guy. But even if he is, I think he is at least an entertaining one

I genuinely think that without the vampire aspect though, his story does lose something. The fact that he was magially stripped of his agency, physically unable to defy his master makes him far more sympathetic. When you first met him is literally the first time in centuries that he's been free to make his own choices. If he were just a regular high elf, then he's kind of just an asshole. Though I suppose they could still have him have been magically enthralled. That would work.

I too think he losses something without the vampire aspect. The parasite changing vampire rules I don't think is a "weak plot device." It gives Astarion a unique roll in the party as the only one advocating to control the parasite, not remove it. Every other party member wants it gone 100% but it's more complicated for Astarion. The rest of the party stands to gain by removing the tadpole. Astarion is the only one with a lot to lose from removal. That complication is a great source of future conflict as the story unfolds.

I agree with both of you, Gray Ghost and Princeps08. I added the sentence "Due to his personality, I think Astarion's character would be just as interesting if he were a regular high elf rogue." only to emphasize that I think he is an interesting character, besides from being a vampire, and Larian did not add him just for the sake of having a vampire character in the game since they are popular.
I would not want him to be a regular high elf, because I think his story is more interesting with him being a vampire. Sorry, I should have made this a little bit more clear.


I think so too, and personally, I like his vampire backstory. Being unable to defy Cazador's commands makes him much more sympathetic, and even if (maybe) he were the worst before this, that is a fate I would wish to no one.


Thank you for pointing this out, Princeps08, I think this might even be the most crucial point why it is important that Astarion is a vampire.
For a non-vampire, I can not imagine another reason for wanting to keep the tadpole aside from power - which would not be a reason my Tavs would sympathize with. Astarion's reason however is very comprehensible, and my Tav would understand that. He would lose everything he had just regained.

I like that this makes the whole tadpole situation so much more complex.
I hope we can help Astarion without having to join the Absolute - of course we would then have to kill Cazador first. I'd really like to help Astarion fight him, and this could be a very interesting and challenging encounter.