Originally Posted by neprostoman
Originally Posted by Hintermist
Originally Posted by neprostoman
Bear form is a dmg sponge, can soak up the most beating, but damage is really weak indeed.

Gotta disagree with you. If for some reason bear form is supposed to be a tank form, I gotta say, 30 hp + 12 AC are terrible tank stats. It suffices at level 2 against goblins, but not much past that.

Bear form is just a 30 hp meat shield at most. Can do more melee damage outside of bear form with just shillelagh + dip.

You are disagreeing with something I never said. I didn't say the bear form is a tank ability. It is 30 HP meat shield on a bonus action. Can as well cast a spell with your action and then shift into the bear form, threatening your foes in melee.

"Damage sponge" sounds like you meant it can tank. It's also not threatening anyone in melee because it simply has no damage output. Using shillelagh + dip (standard strategy) with 18 wisdom is (1d8+4)+1d4, 6-16 damage vs the 2d4+4, 6-12 damage of bear form.

The only use bear wildshape has is to eat a hit or 2 at most. You're not able to actually output any respectable damage or tear up the front lines. And this is the problem. I should be wildshaping into bear in order to fight in melee competently, instead I fight in melee worse than my caster form. Wildshapes should be about more than just the extra health.