Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Larian Skills <vs> DND Skills, This is a problem. (First time poster, long time fan!)

So,

First and foremost, this is my very first post on a Larian forum. If I post a dead horse, please say so. I will dig into your forums about feedback, but I have to tell you, this is DND, not Divinity, and I feel it is something you need to say to yourself over and over while your team designs combat. The main reason I am targeting this is that I want to see so much more from a DND game, and you guys seem to be close, but games like Solasta have you(Larian) hand's down-beat in combat right now. I have been playing your game since it "early released" the first chapter, just like I did divinity, and the quality and content is amazing. However, I want a long-lasting community-built content DND game, and short of Neverwinter Nights, that game does not exist.

You may or may not want that route for your game, but the fact people are modding already leads me to believe you are leaning that way.(?) If so.. Perhaps take these suggestions with a grain of salt, as I am just some rando, who just desires perfection from people doing much greater things than me.

Weapons:
Warhammer:
Base Damage: 1D10 2H, or 1D8 1H.
-2H and 1H meaning 2-Handed or 1-Handed for those who don't know.
-Great! Excellent in fact.

Proficiency Unlocks
-Backbreaker "Knocks Prone" (More on Prone Later)
-Concussive "Set's Dazed" (More on Dazed Later)
-Weakening Strike "Set's Weak Grip" (More on whatever this is later)

Suggestion:
Remove it as default. Unless tying it with an ability skill check to perform the desired action.

Proficiency Unlocks, are things I would consider... "Chance on Hit" at best... but moreover based on rules... Magical Properties. Now you can say, like I said, by chance, these things can happen. But they are not DND canon, and certainly not something a DND game should have on base weaponry. It is overpowered based on what the weapon should do. Instead, those types of actions should be reserved for the actions of the class that can do them. All of the base weapons seem to have them, and I honestly just don't use them since being an avid DND player, they should not be there. There is PLENTY of room to make that a magical property, and you are missing the opportunity here to make normal weapons, normal weapons.

If this is a dead horse, welp. I will wait for a mod to remove them.


Ground Effects
Cantrips or similar none ground effect items
Simply stated by many. This is not Divinity, and this is your worst original sin... ha.

Situationally, if a ground is covered by Oil, and you set it aflame, I get it. However casting say ray of frost does not make a bed of ice under a character, this turns a cantrip into a powerful spell. This needs to stop and has no place in the rules. The same goes for anything that is not already a genuine spell. Grease comes to mind, it is genuine and damn funny to watch and is the DESIRED effect. Ray of Frost is a cantrip and not a sheet of ice under the player's feet. ENOUGH of this already. ENOUGH.

Suggestion:
Unless, by spell or device, this has to go completely, 100% gone. Please shed some light, strong light otherwise, and why do you think it needs to stay? This is DND, not Divinity, stop being bitter clingers.

Prone
Currently, both players and creatures get up and then perform an action incorrectly. Getting up is the action. What the hell else is the purpose of prone? If I can get up and perform and action it has done NOTHING to achieve it's affect.

Suggestion:
This is just broken, fix it to cost an action. All good after.


Class Actions:
Jump:
This is not a bonus action, it is a movement. You have movement, action, and interaction. You are performing an athletics or acrobatics action unless you are jumping over a puddle, this should be the skill attributed to the action.(Notice the word action after that) moreover, characters should be skilled in the action to do it in combat.

This makes using say a rogue with athletics in combat far more likely to perform an amazing feat rather than say a cleric in plate armor, who just manages to jump over a ravine perfectly every time. I did notice the failure produces damage, and rightly so.. but the failure can be far worse say if they jump a bottomless pit in the Underdark leading to you re-rolling a character cause "he dead!".

I can't imagine it would be possible to program in this leading to a character jumping in after and trying to say cast fly and capture them, but programming a game for literally every option is impossible is it doable in combat? Maybe? Maybe the failure if not in combat puts the party into the initiative and allows for them to react.

Suggestion:
Leaving this in for movement may be okay.. but you have all these "rope" items and they literally are never used... Why not use them? 100% something that can happen in an expansion, but changing this to an action in combat seems like something everyone will be ok will and if NPCs choose to do it, that changes combat, but it has to have some pretty crazy AI to understand jumping to higher ground, truly smart AI. Leaving it as an action, in combat and just a thing to do out of combat seems reasonable.

Push/Shove:
This is hands down a strength check and an action. I noticed it is listed as a bonus action and this is awfully game-breaking. If you intend to shove someone off a building, whelp this is an action and you better commit, but to allow them to attack, cast a spell then push? OR WORSE, push away then cast or use a ranged attack without disadvantage? CRAZY game-breaking. Sorry for my use of caps, they are trying to stress me, stress man. This is not DND, DND has rules for a reason, and to break them in this outright fashion is depressing to me. Moreover, Divinity, not DND. (SAY THE MANTRA IN YOUR HEAD).

Suggestion:
If anything, make it a skill check (prompt die roll) then count it as an action. Make the player, and the AI decide if this is the correct course of action.. NO MATTER WHAT, change it to 5ft, and not the 15ft+ action it is ridiculously set to now.

Throw:
This is perhaps, the most creative "action" you have created...YAY, it's an action, as it should be. Now, let's talk about what you are throwing and why. I love that you can use this skill rather ambiguously, however, certain items should require a skill check, along with a chance to hit. Currently, I can throw say a healing potion the length of my screen for a 100& chance to heal someone. Seriously? Healing potions are meant to be consumed, not smashed against the dead/dying body.

Suggestion:
Remove this ability to be 100% accurate, make it an attack roll, and use unmovable objects such as an incapacitated body or shelf as an advantage to hit. This is another Larian house rule, that while I don't hate, is imbalancing for DND. I think you have made a ton of adjustments to throw already, but I still think a few more need some consideration and should prompt skill checks along side of chance to hit. Probably not possible at this stage, but "throwing" it out there for a suggestion. If anything remove throwing a healing potion or any consumable as an option, it's just not DND.

Help:
Going straight to suggestion here. Help should have the Medicine Skill check apply when reviving a downed player.

Dip:
This is pure Larian house rules, and has nothing to do with DND, but the action, yes action, of dipping a weapon into something to cause an effect is intriguing, but just dipping a steel sword into fire, does not give it "additional" fire damage. This is silly honestly and I think it should be removed.. I will get into ground effects later. Great for Divinity, bad for DND.

Suggestion:
Remove it: While the action of dipping into something to see what happens is intriguing, the reason for this should be based on the encounter. IE.. Ooze-like substance that tends to stick to any item produces an effect when hit, not sticking a weapon in water gives it the chance to put on fire. But more creation. While removing this entirely is probably fine, reserving some actions for OOC seems like something more of a story piece, and not something that should affect combat. Unless of course, it is corrosive, and the item is metal... and not magical. Am I wrong?


Item Drops:
Well, this will likely be unpopular, but I just feel the rate at which magical items drop is way out of control right now. I understand it is a video game, and item drops should be married to the game flow. But the rate at which I find, scrolls, healing potions, any potions whatsoever is completely heaven in DND. I believe a game played right based on the "infection" we have as time-based, which means having tons of magical items, scrolls, etc, would allow us to forgo rest or be turned into Mindflayers. The problem is, that is not the case. So instead of resting to regain, you can use the literal arsenal of drops to prevent rest.

This is far more problematic for game design, so I suspect there will be no change. Looking at it for what it is at its face, is clearly just money-sucking. But what is the point of gold atm? I have never spent money on anything in this game, it is literally just given to me or can be stolen. The Economy is pretty poorly done right now.

I would suggest a complete revamp, but given the game is so close to release, we aren't getting one. Removing some of the ridiculous amounts of "magical green items" is probably not going to happen, but I am trying to suggest something here.

Suggestion:
There is really no need for accessories in this game, like rope or pitons. So far as I can tell. So instead, let's just look to overall reduce the scroll, potion, and magical items drop and treat them as the rarity they should be. Is attunement completely thrown out BTW?

Also, unless a plot item, left items should disappear over time. Scavengers would eventually find stuff left behind.

Food
Food does not HEAL, unless it is a special magical food. Larian food is not magical, and thus should not heal. I can get real puns like here, but I won't. This needs to go before release.

Suggestion:
Remove healing from food, period. There is no room for it. Not with the number of options you are giving. Not in DND, Not ever. Just stop.




Well, that is it for now. Honestly, After the last year of the progress of the game, I have seen a lot of great changes. As reactions are new, I will refrain from comments about newer non-sticking problems. I hope "shield" and "counterspell" will make an entrance into the game at some point as they are critical components to a caster's defense. But looking at the problematic Divinity engine items left over, I am worried. I believe these things are not nit-picky, and I also believe you would do yourself a favor to address them. I am here to help, however. Which is why I offer suggestions.

You guys are great, but take a moment to thank yourself, and be greater even in the face of some adversity. Pretty please?


Thank you for reading.

After reading the compilation of community feedback, I feel a bit foolish posting this. But It seems I am sad now since these are glaring issues not yet addressed. I will go cry in a corner.

Welcome, we'll add them onto the bonfire pile

Yeah, many of those will be raised. Larian already walked back on some issues (did you know that jump and disengage was once upon a time the same thing and bonus action? Did you know that once upon a time all cantrips spawned surface underneath?)

Getting up from prone (in RAW d&d and BG3) costs half your movement. Prone also gives you advantage on melee attacks to targets that are prone (this is the advantage). The actual problem with prone, that I see, is that it ends your turn (a DoS engine side effect). (For example: when your walking over an ice surface on your turn, walk 5 feet and slip, you lose your turn, your action, BA, and 25 feet of movement you could've used to get up)

I completely agree with most of it - there are 2 minor mistakes in there:

1. D&D getting up from prone is not an action, its just half your movement in 5e.

2. 5e Shove is based is something you can do instead of one ATTACK (not attack action nor a full action - still it being a bonus action is inacceptible) and it is based on atheltics vs atheltics/acrobatics - not basic strength/dexterity.


Besdies that I think the feedback is extremely valid. Add to it the horribly wrong treatment of stealth and you have most of the biggest balance issues listed right here. There are a lot of minor issues as well, but none of them as impactful, just unnecessary and not improving the game what so ever.


When it comes to magic items I don't mind them. I have barely seen any that are really crazy or that useful. Sure in 5e the rate is usually slower, but you can balance it out with encounter design (which currently is just bad due to the Larian homebrew dominatiing the game).

There is also haste adding at the moment whole extra multiattack/spell cast, but I can’t guess if it is finalised or not.

Yeah, I think there are a lot of spells that are currently re-balanced by Larian and I would consider them a fail.

I think I saw that hypnotic pattern has only a duration of 3 turns - a nerv that combined with the concentration problems is not warranted.

Heat Metal is borderline useless except against bosses. You could argue that in 5e its to powerful, but why is there a saving throw involved to be applied? Why can't I place it on the armor? Currently you use it, enemy drops the weapon and the spell is can't to anything anymore. Too many nervs at once.

I'm sure the list of tweaks when it comes to this is long, but since they are singular spells I don't see them as game breaking as the current shove or sneaking. The weapon issues are also minor problems, that are utterly not necessary, but since Larian's chef and designers deem the fighter classes too boring (no comment on that, we see what type of gameplay they like) I don't see them being removed any time soon either.

And attacking from behind gives a free advantage. Fortunately they backed off, I had to do early access solo with my rogue. =))

And high ground gave advantage. Wow, those were the times…

So I've been underestimating the damage jump does to balance. I have had multiple occasions where I used grease to immobilize enemies and as soon as they were able, they just jumped out of it, rather than having to walk through it and potentially slip again.

It could be better if the one jumping from grease or ice had to do a DEX ST before the jump or fall prone

Come brother. Let's cry together !
Agree with your feedback, of course. One more voice. I hope yours will be heard^^

Wasn’t this done many patches ago?

Hi Ahnmahn, Good post. With regard to item drops, I hope they have put loads in to test for early access and all the silly not needed item could be for crafting. We'll have to see.

Misery does love company. Your hopes and dreams will be added to the wood pile for the furnace. Welcome!

Hypnotic Pattern only last 2 turns, and the enemy can bonus action shove them to break the condition.