Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Multiplayer Report - People are not loving Druid.

You should be able to move the moonbeam while in wildshape, because you are able to maintain spells while in wildshape, just not cast them. In fact, none of your druid skills, except spellcasting, should be blanked out while in wildshape at this level, and it seems some of them are.

Not just some - all of your druid abilities and traits vanish when you wild shape, currently - you just straight up become the animal, and are not a druid any more; it's been like this since it was released, and hasn't been changed, despite many reports, unfortunately.

The issue with moonbeam has been recorded since it was put in as well - and indeed, if you take a look back over the focus thread on spell,s you'll see that the issue with spells damage timing and save timing (of which Moonbeam's damage-on-cast was just the latest spell to display the coding issue underlying all spells) has been present since day one, and never fixed as of yet. We make reports, but so far no word of it being addressed.

Wild Shape is not supposed to be on the same level of melee damage output as a fighter, barbarian or paladin - just like a paladin is not supposed to be on the same level as a spellcaster as a cleric or druid.


But let us take a look at statistics and numbers to see how Bear fares against a fighter like Lae'zel.
(I WILL BE USING DATA FROM THE FEXTRALIFE WIKI AS I HAVEN'T BOUGHT BG3. SHOULD THERE BE ANY STATISTICAL ERRORS PLEASE TELL ME SO I CAN ADJUST THESE CALCULATIONS)



At LVL 2 our Moon Druid in Bear form has 30 HP / AC 12 / +6 to hit / 2d4+4 damage

At LVL 2 Lae'zel has 20 HP / AC 16 (18) / +5 to hit / 2d6+3 (1d8+3) damage (Numbers in () are if she uses a shield and 1-handed weapon)


As we can see, those stats are pretty close to each other. The 10 point difference in HP is mitigated by the 4 point difference in armor class (assuming no heavy armor or shield, which Lae'zel as a fighter could equip). Even the damage output is comparable, with our druid doing 6-12 damage (average 9) and Lae'zel doing 5-15 (average 10) with her greatsword. Also our druid hits 5% more often. Yay!

HOWEVER! Moon Druids can wildshape as a bonus action, and you have 2 uses of Wild Shape, meaning that even if enemies manage to deal 30 points of damage to you, you can wildshape again to have ANOTHER 30 points of HP that they need to hack through - so in reality you have 60 HP compared to Lae'zels 20.



At LVL 3 our Moon Druid in Bear form has 30 HP / AC 12 (16) / +6 to hit / 2d4+4 damage (Number in () is if we use Barkskin)

At LVL 3 Lae'zel has 28 HP / AC 16 (18) / +5 to hit / 2d6+3 (1d8+3) damage (Numbers in () are if she uses a shield and 1-handed weapon)


At LVL 4 our Moon Druid in Bear form has 30 HP / AC 12 (16) / +6 to hit / 2d4+4 damage (Number in () is if we use Barkskin)

At LVL 4 Lae'zel has 36 HP / AC 17 (19) / +6 to hit / 2d6+4 (1d8+4) damage (Numbers in () are if she uses a shield and 1-handed weapon/ LVL 4 +1STR/+1DEX)


At level 3 bear druid might just be better then Lae'zel wielding a two-handed weapon because we have more HP, equal AC, better to-hit and equal-ish damage. At level 4 Lae'zel surges ahead because no matter if you take a feat or an ability score increase it will matter in combat, while druid wildshapes don't benefit from either. (Feats working or not in Wild Shape is a BIG point of contention in pen&paper circles. There are arguments both for and against it. I have no idea how it is handled ingame - if someone who has purchased the EA could provide clarification I would be very grateful.)

Also take into account that the above examples of Lae'zel don't account for your choice of subclass and fighting style - both of which can have an impact on those numbers (+1 AC / +2 damage with 1-handed weapons / Battlemaster manouvers etc.).

At level 5 fighters like Lae'zel get Extra Attack which catapults them ahead in terms of damage output. They now also have comparable HP to a Bear druid using 2 Wild Shapes. Add higher AC to the mix if you manage to find Plate Armor (AC 18 or 20 with a Shield) and its a fighters level to shine.

WHICH IS OK!! All this time while we have been comparing the melee capabilities of our Fighter and Druid pair our Druid has been growing in his capabilities as a spellcaster too!! It is this versatility, this blend of being a decent secondary melee character coupled with being a versatile full spellcaster when needed that has made Circle of the Moon Druid one of the strongest classes in D&D 5E for the past 8 years! We are a melee tank, melee damage dealer, battlefield controller, buffer AND healer!! ALL ROLLED INTO ONE SINGLE CLASS!!!


We should also not forget that, just as fighter-type classes got a big boost at LVL 5 because of Extra Attack, Moon Druids will get a big boost at LVL 6 because they will gain access to new Wild Shape forms. And seeing as we have not yet seen what Larian is planning to implement for those .... even if we don't get something with Extra Attack, as long as it's something that is an improvement to our earlier levels it's gonna be OK.

No one's asking for Moon druid wildshapes to be on par with a martial class. You are missing a lot of relevant information. Weapon attacks, status conditions applied via those weapon attacks, coating your weapon in fire/poison, subclass features like action surge, even just feats affecting your tav but not wildshapes. And let's not forget the many weapons with special enhancements, like the flaming sword you can get on the nautiloid.

Fact of the matter is that wildshapes could be buffed and still be worse melee combatants than martial classes. Bear form isn't even close to performing on their level, not even at level 2.

Edit: I mean damage wise, obviously survivability is better at that level lol. This is a good time for me to plug my general forums post, the Deeper Rothe. My idea to buff the deep rothe instead of the bear. Keeping its lower health and AC but buffing it's damage and making it moon only essentially. Check it out as I think many would like it.

Since I spent 750+ hours playing a Moond Druid in Tabletop, spent 1000+ hours DMing Tabletop, and spent around 300+ hours watching playthroughs of each new BG3 patch I think I have all the relevant information that I need. Like special weapon attacks and dipping being bad homebrew additions, and items and feats favoring fighter-like classes - which I already mentioned in my last post, but maybe you did not see it.

Whether they are good or bad additions is irrelevant. They're in the game. This is about buffing moon druid wildshaping so our subclass feature isn't substantially underpowered. In the current state of the game, the most viable playstyle for a moon druid is to not wildshape at all so you can use your concentration spells.

Since you are failing to see it, let me help you, with math.

Druid MB: 6d10 have an average of 33 as an outcome, but since AT LEAST 50% will be saved(CON ST), that mean an average of ((1/2)*33)+((1/2)*16,5) = 25 (rounding UP).
So, an average of (25) damage using your concentration AND your action.

Sorcerer TwinHaste: Currently it is giving a full action, so on a Barbarian/Paladin/Fighter/Ranger they are getting two extra attacks. With a Damage Dealing class you can EASILY achive an average of 15 damage.
So an average of 4x15= (60) Extra damage using you concentration but WIHTOUT using you action. Meaning that if you add a CANTRIP on top of it that already a (71) damage, and that is not even considering the increase of Move-speed, AC and DEX ST of the party members buffed.

Cleric Spirit Guardian: 3d8 have an average of13,5, since it is WILL ST most enemies won't resist but let PRETEND that 50% will resist ((1/2*13,5)+((1/2)*6,75)) = 10 (rounding down).
So an average of 10 damage PER TARGET using concentration but without using your action. Since SG area move with you its easy to hit 3~4 targets on a turn, but even if you hit just two you still have your attack which pretty dam sure will deal more than 5 damage as an average, and that is not even considering the slow that SG área impose on enemies.

Lastly Fireball: 8d6 have an average of 28 damage, but since... ... ... ... ... that means an average damage of 21. But fireball have a REALLY HUGE área, you can easily hit 4~5 enemies that means 80~100 damage. So, you need 3 to 4 turn with Moonbean to reach this damage. So you can argue that MB is more Cost/Benefit damage wise, but you need to consider that in most case the burst of damage works better since you remove enemies from the field, and you can add on top of that the fact that fireball does NOT use concentration.


Conclusion: Yeah, MB is definitely better than Call Lightning currently, but that isn't because MB is OP but because Druid spells is UP... Not to mention Wildshape that is currently a JOKE, and no the problem isn't the fact the Land Druid have acess to some WS but the Fact that ALL WS s..k hard.

All spells and effects are a bit wierd in BG3 because the game seems unable to NOT apply damages / status effects when you cast them.

Let's say burning for 2 turn : you will burn 3 times.
- When burning is applied
- When burning ticks for the first time (end/start turn usually)
- When burning ticks for the second time.

That's how it works too with moonbeam and cloud dagger. Damages are done when you cast the spell, then when the ennemy start his turn into the AOE. Then when you move it (moonbeam), then when the ennemy start its turn...

You maybe didn’t realise that the post you were responding to was nearly 5 months old. Necro-ing old threads is fine here when you want to reopen discussion on the same topic because you have new points to raise, but after that lapse of time it’s not appropriate to reply to specific users as it’s entirely possible they’re no longer active on the forum.

Adding that if you Haste the Druid before Wildshape, the Haste does not carry to the animal form. Moreover, you can't actually take advantage of a Hasted animal form with doing two attacks.

I wonder if that’s a known bug. It’s not one I recall noticing or hearing about, so it may be worth submitting a bug report to Larian support.