Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback WOW so Baldur's Gate has gone from fun GAMe to borderline cartoon porn?

I think you are building a nice strawman there. I have seen plenty of arguments for explicit scenes in this thread, and no one "REQUIRE" explicit depictions in order to enjoy fiction or feel mature here.

it's almost as if my use of the "i can't understand" at the end there was a demonstration of how that approach is only toxic, which I explained above.

My point remains that Larian's approach to sexual representation is immature and unhealthy.

This is my point right here. Let's say BG1 and 2 were remade today. Yes, there was a brothel. Yes, you could choose to sleep with characters. However, it can be presented in a less in-your-face method so that it doesn't cause potential customers to not buy the game... or finish it.

Example: In the game Fate, you could get married and sleep with your wife. When you did, fade to black, you hear some giggling noises and knew what was happening, and it's over. They COULD have animated some naughty stuff, but they chose not to. There's LOTS of things animators can do besides showing naked people totally doing it front and center on the screen. It doesn't have to be so explicit so that it doesn't turn people away from buying the game or ever buying another Larian game.

I myself will hesitate to buy another Larian game because of their explicit sex scenes in this one. I will have to read reviews and stuff to see if people are saying that Larian has included explicit sex. As it is, I'm deathly afraid that Larian is going to add MORE vulgarity and sex in BG3 to the point that I won't even be able to finish it. I'm REALLY REALLY afraid that some later level - or multiple levels - is going to have naked men/women popping out of nowhere at me, succubuses trying to seduce my character with nothing on, or practically nothing on - or incubuses - walking in on other people having sex like the bugbear and ogre scene, and so forth. VERY afraid! Seriously. I'm not exaggerating. It is a serious fear of mine. If they include too much of this kind of stuff, I'm out. I won't be able to finish this game which has become my favorite game of all time. I've played this game WAY more than KOTOR, my previously favorite game. By simply adding this kind of content, it will completely plummet this game to TOTAL AND ABSOLUTE TRASH AND A HUGE WASTE OF TIME in moments. That's how strongly I feel about it. The only reason I tolerate it now is because it is optional to trigger sex scenes, and I can turn down my volume to not hear the duergar vulgarity. If they make it so that it just pops out at me while going through the story, like the bugbear and ogre scene but maybe even more explicit, it'll ruin the whole game for me. (Note: I totally NEVER go to the bugbear/ogre shack. EVER, because of just how much it affected me the first time.)

And it is a MAJOR downside to me that they don't have some way to turn off the sex scenes and vulgarity in its current state. When they added the duergar dialogues at Grymforge, I was disgusted and it really tarnished my gameplay. I had to struggle through it, gritting my teeth and just bearing it for the love of the overall game. If they add more, I don't know what I'll do.

I am not complaining. I am telling you how I feel. If this game gets MORE vulgar and sexual, it'll ruin the whole thing for me. I'm barely tolerating what they have in it so far.

However, IF they give me the option to turn off sex and vulgarity, my love and enjoyment for the game will rise again back to where it was when I first started playing it. It's as simple as that. Let me turn off the nasty bits and this game will skyrocket in terms of enjoyment for me, and it'll make me have faith that Larian will produce future games that give me such options so I can actually play them.

Sure they could ?, but why should they, these things has allways been in the BG saga, and as the years gone everything evolve... im not sure how i can tell you this in a nice way, i respect your views, but dont force them on others... the game is rated as it is, deal with it...

To explain alittle where i come from, i at times go to a bath house, or bastu(sauna) think its steam bath in english, there is those Saunas that split between genders, and those that is for both, but main thing is, clouthes isnt allowed in most Saunas, you enjoy the sauna with people, you talk, and its often people you dont know, or never met... people isnt secualy aroused or have a hard on... its not a big thing, its nekkid people enjoying a healthy steam bath...

Are you implaying scandinavian people are doing it wrong ?

You are esentually telling me that i cant enjoy a sauna naked as we for generations done, couse you feel uncomfterble arond strangers thats naked... well lol... there is things i like in life and there is things i dont like, if i dont likesomething or feel uncomfterble, i avoid it... but i dont try to force peopel to change their work, maybe they enjoy it as it is ?...

and maybe go to the bath house where people dont sauna naked

Asking for a sanitized version of the world doesn't seem reasonable to me, even if you get a bowlderized Baldur's Gate option. These games aren't for young people, and being Christian isn't synonymous with being against vulgarity in art. If they give you an option to censor some of the things you don't like, I'm glad you'll be able to play the game without reservation, but I don't think a conscientious person like yourself should really need that to appreciate it.

If nothing else, I'm sure somewhere down the line a modder will be able to take care of it, if Larian doesn't.

You're equating seeing nude bodies in non-sexual environments with viewing explicit sex scenes. These are incredibly different. A more apt comparison would be if you & people in your culture regularly met to hang, talk, etc in brothels/sex clubs.

Would you be comfortable being around strangers that were having sex right next to you?

Edit: Nudity isn't an inherently sexual thing. Sex, by definition, is a sexual thing. I'm certainly not saying sex is shameful or immoral, but it is different, and one can easily believe/argue that nudity is fine while sex should be kept private (fade to black in non-porn games).

I'm not forcing anything. I'm asking for an option to turn it off so I can enjoy the game, and I'd they make the sex and vulgarity worse, an option to turn it off allows me to finish the game without having to grit my teeth and bear it and/or without having to determine whether I should just chuck the game as opposed to finish it. Why should they? Because I am obviously not alone. If they provide the option, they could gain more customers and more returning customers.

So if you walk into a sauna and we sit naked, males, females, young and old... would you tell usto cover up so you can enjoy the sauna, and finish your paid time ?

So lets argue with the thought that Larian do make a PG version, in order for it to still actually be rated as PG larian actually have to live up to certain standards, if they dont, its still rated for a more mature audience... my anoyance with all this, is that these things isnt as easy as some of you think, its thousends of lines of text, cutscenes and animations that needs to dupplicated and in many cases still story wise make sense...and the risk is that the entire story or the entire game gets nerfed, or the production time get drastically longer... and even more so in many countries of for example Larian fail to live up to certain things they risk getting sued...

Its alittle like cyber punk, they tried to make a game for all platforms, and in compromising performance to fit the low end platforms, it ended up a really broken game on release... you not just asking Larian to have a PG tailored version for you and like minded, your also asking everyone else to wait for it... and from the beginning cyberpunk was going to be full nude, then they added PG versions, in order to make it more accesiable, wich also ended up removing alot of inteded grafical things...

Anouther example, someone writes a book, and i ask the author to re write the entire book and add in alittle grafical romancing stuff... fairly sure the writer could do that, but its alot of text to "change" add to still keep the story...

So sure, im oki with what you say, if it in no way in anyway, adds bugs, or limits the original intended experience or DELAYS the production...

Some people are just going to be less comfortable with sex in media than other people. It could be due to religion or morals, but it could also just be personal preference stemming from any number of things, and their comfort level with it isn't in itself a measure of character one way or another. I think getting this explicit with the sexual content is going to cost the game something. Is the cost worth it? No way to know yet, and everyone will have a different answer ultimately. But the question, the real question, isn't about sex in the abstract. At least it shouldn't be. The question should be what each individual scene of sexual content adds to the game. Does it add anything to the world or the story that can't be done without? Or can't be conveyed in a more efficient, concise way? If the answer is no, then they shouldn't be there, because those are questions that should be asked about any scene, and if the answer is no, then the scene shouldn't be there full stop. The eventual sex scene between Tav and Gale? I think that serves a purpose, at least in theory if not in execution. The weird bugbear sex thing? That's honestly just dumb and a kind of humor that's beneath the game. I think the same goes for being able to fire Barcus Wroot from the windmill.

Edit: And regarding vulgarity specifically, in the form of swearing, I definitely think it can just go too far. My example of that is The Witcher 2. They specifically used the word 'ploughing' so often that I just straight up got sick of it. And it was noticeably tured down in Witcher 3. Frankly I think the Duergar are approaching the point where it's just an eye-rolling level of vulgarity. It's not just offensive, it's annoying. It starts feeling forced and unnatural. I think as a contained occasion it's acceptable, but if it gets more intense than that, it'll really just feel like 'I get it, you're vulgar. Can we just have an actual conversation now?"

Wow, you must have quite the view from up on that high horse. If you're that disgusted maybe do the mature thing and take a pass.

Dude. I would not go to a sauna where it is cross-gender. I don't really like saunas to begin with, but I certainly wouldn't go to one where males, females, young and old are naked together. If I did enter one, and discovered that it was this way, I'd walk right out and ask for my money back.

I can't do that with BG3. It's too late to ask for my money back. I've already played it for like 600+ hours for 2+ years. If they make the game MORE vulgar and sexual than it already is, I'm going to just have to uninstall and suffer. I don't get to know the end simply because they made it SO vulgar and sexual that I can't, in good conscience, continue it. THAT is my big fear for this game.

Also, I am NOT - and I repeat - NOT asking them to create an entirely different PG version of the game. All I'm asking - and others like me, for the most part - is options in settings. Option 1 = Explicit Sex Scenes On/Off where Off means that if you choose to sleep with someone, it fades to black. If there are parts of the game where naked men or women spring out at you or they're having explicit sex and you walk in on them, the option makes it so that you are forewarned. "Warning: Explicit material ahead." And I REALLY REALLY hope they don't have anything explicit or whatever that is mandatory for a person to complete the game. As long as they keep it as optional like the campfire party where everyone asks you to do it, I can live with that. The bugbear and ogre scene I can also live with, though a nice warning message would have been nice. Like I said, something that pops up and says, "Don't open the door ahead. Explicit content." Fine. That's optional. I'll just avoid it. Thanks for the warning Larian. And vulgarity? Bleep it out and do this to the subtitles: "$#@$" Ah. Now I know they're saying raunchy, nasty, vulgar stuff, but I'm not reading about how Thrynn is going down on Nere, or whatever. I don't like reading about or hearing that stuff, and it does seriously hurt my enjoyment of the game. I'd really like THE OPTION to have it blurred out, bleeped, or just totally removed if I go into Settings and hit "Vulgarity Off" or "Explicit Nudity and Sex Off" or whatever.

So, again, it's not the whole game redone. It's a few scenes that they could fade to black or bleep out or blur or something so people don't actually see full fledged naked boobies and bottoms and people humping each other and talking about humping each other. I do not think that stuff is fun, and it seriously ruins the game for me when it pops up on me.

So lets NOT argue. It's just me stating why I want an option to turn off that stuff, and why I'm in support of such an option. You might have tons and loads of fun with explicit nakedness and sex in a game and all that nasty vulgar talk, but I don't. I want to enjoy the game to its fullest too, so I'm simply supporting the options to be able to turn that junk off.

And... btw... I also don't support books that have explicit sex and vulgarity. I typically toss them in the garbage. I know that's not your point, but to address your point, again, I'm not asking Larian to rewrite a ton of stuff. I'm asking them to create an option or options for us who don't enjoy such material so that we can turn it off. Here's how it would go:

Explicit Sex Option
On = Minthara and MC having full explicit sex and dialogues.
Off = You agree to sleep with Minthara. Cuts to Minthara and MC snuggling in the afterglow. It only shows them from the shoulders up, so you know they're naked but it's showing no naked bits. Important dialogues ensue. This is the exact same as the On option except they have zoomed in or tilted the camera or shoot, they just blur out the naughty bits, and they cut out the entire sex portion of the scene. They didn't really change anything - no new scripting or shooting of scenes or nothing. It's like flipping a page in a book instead of reading it. The content is there, but you've elected to skip the naughty portions, reading only the important stuff.

Vulgarity Option
On = All dialogue sound and subtitles as normal.
Off = Vulgar text is changed to $#@$ characters and vulgar speech audio simply goes silent. So, when one of the duergar says, "Thrynn's choking on Nere's prick," it instead says, "Thrynn's $#@$ $# $#@$ #$@$." You kinda get the idea that they're being vulgar and dirty, but you aren't hearing the words or reading them. You know it's not really important text, and you get the idea that the duergar are being nasty. And, if it IS important text mingled with vulgarity, the dialogue does something like this: "In order to enter the $#@$ $#@$ temple, you have to $#@$ $#@$ pull the $#@$ lever on the $#@$ statue."

Do they HAVE to do this? No. Of course not. Those who have said "They said it's M-rated, so they have every right to put whatever mature content they want into the game" are absolutely correct. They have every right to put whatever they want into it. It's their game. Doesn't matter one bit to me what rights they have as a developer. I've purchased the game hoping they will not be too raunchy for me to play it through to the end. I'm a paying customer, and I'm hoping that as a paying customer, and since it is EA and they have the ability to make whatever changes they want, that they will at least consider me and people like me who don't like games with this kind of content.

Will I be upset if they don't do anything? Maybe a little as long as the game doesn't get worse than it already is. I will grit my teeth and bear it as long as it doesn't get worse than present. Will I stop playing the game entirely and consider it totally trash? No, unless they make it MORE vulgar and sexual than it already is and they don't provide any way for players like me to turn off the sex, nudity and vulgarity. Will I ever buy another Larian game? Quite possibly, unless they totally disregard players like me and make it more vulgar and sexual than it already is with no way of turning it off. If they do that, I absolutely will not ever buy another Larian game. Period.

And we could argue all day long about it, but it won't do any good. This is how I feel. This is my personal preference. No amount of arguing about it will change my mind. And again, I'm obviously not the only one or this thread wouldn't have so many pages and it wouldn't have gotten so heated on many occasions.

The path to hell is paved with good intentions...

You sort of touches this youself, not everything is for everyone, like a sauna, dont like it, dont do it, i payed for a dark adult romancy BG saga with stuff that some can persive as uncomfterble, hell i even know i will be offered alot of evil choises and tempted by this, i dont ask Larian to hide that from me, i just chose to avoid it, these things are part of a BG saga, tell me should Larian, make a option that hides evil choises in the game ?, dont even you see the pandoras box this adds of bloat ?... and while, yes Larian can add what you and some want... the risk is, it comes at the expense, again for some of us other... im seriously tired of people wanting to add this, or that, to a certain experience, and it just leads to delayed repeases and broken promises, couse the Publishers need to compromise in order to apease everyone...

Iwe seen so many games with its OG version or scope, get asked to add this, or remove that, to apease a broader clientel, for example a pvp game, that gets pve slapped on, now you need to balance it all for both playstyles, and it generally ends up to little of something, or nothing at all... and that is my worry, in order to make a PG version, Larian will have to compromise the story so it makes sense in both PG and Mature version... meaning the more mature story just gets watered down... and if thats the case, then no !

as i said, sure... but it should in no way delay or change the intended original mature story... so i hope you understand why people are objecting what you ask for, i rather have Larian make the entire game a PG version for you and make that fantastic, then a mish mash that makes no one happy... but that jsut leaves me screwed ower again... becouse im fairly certain, at the end what you ask for will water down, what i payed for, or seriously delay the game for everyone

The BG saga have and have allways been a "MATURE" rated experience

PS Listen its not ust to hide something, if they hide something, or rewrithes something, it creates a chain effect in a tree of cascading responses, one little change can create bizzare paradoxs as respones simply dont line up anymore... and its not just PG version, this will affect the Mature OG story as they need to get back on the same track, and still allways make sense and imersion... its alittle tricker then "just"

To make a example, the scene where two celebrate together after certain events, i dont want to spoil to much, but any later rephrence in the tree that later talks about that scene, during the entire game, need to later line up regarding what you saw or what you did... and this need to line up with both PG and OG, and imagine they add a thrid avoid evil choises... it can be hundreds of lines of text and later that talks about earlier events, that has to line up in all cases, or voice recording... To understand more about this, and how much what you state as "just" Sven talks about the issues about choises in story, and in a emersive way get Shadowheart to show up in logical ways, i dont think you even grasp, how fundamentally this "just" can screw up the story, couse story of text or voice acting dont depict things that make sense...

Fair point, the discussion did not revolve around the reason behind these scenes. I think the reasoning is probably

1) Sexuality is part of every adult person (even asexuals in the way that they need to communicate with people of other types of sexualities) and this part of our characters is often unexplored. Speaking about it becomes more and more natural, and we explore it with our real partners. And yet, our game partner is just a blank. Minthara is a great example of character development by using a sexual theme, I think, but the scene itself is lacking quality yet, yeah.

2) Immersion reasons. This world does not hide from the player its rough edges and feels more real because of that. There is a comment of mine several pages ago in which I describe how showing things that usually are not shown can immerse a payer into the world. BUT! There were great arguments about the fact that lack of control and choices in these scenes can cause an immersion break if you think that the sexual behavior of your character differs from what is shown. So this is also a point of debate.

Your point remains silly. Have you considered that maybe this just isn't the game for you? There's nothing wrong with that.

It is absolutely fine for you to enjoy what BG3 is doing and desire to stay the way it is.

But don’t pretend like BG1&2 anywhere in the same ballpark, even when taking into account overall increase in “mature content” in video games.

Your comparison to sauna is also dishonest - context is not sexual, and sauna is sauna, you get what you sign up for. BG as an IP has established a certain tone, and it is understandable some people who enjoyed tone and rating of BG1&2 won’t appreciate BG3’s choices. Even if Mature rating is front and center, it can mean many things. Pillars of Eternity 1&2 and fallout games also have adult rating, but they don’t contains content like BG3, while being by all accounts more “mature” and grim worlds and stories.

There is narrative shallowness a I think that is bothering me. If sex and prophanity had a narrative justification, I bet I wouldn’t mind it. It is, however, that those cutscenes seem to be for mine and mine entertainment only and it’s just embarrassingly awkward that devs think I do want to watch digital characters having awkwardly animated sex. Or that I will be amused by swearing dwarfs. I don’t and I would prefer to see those go. That’s my feedback, feel free to have a different one.

Oh, and there is no rose tinted glasses for Bg1&2 here. I play those games every couple years, and playing a bit of Bg1 right now, as I am away from my PC. Their content is pretty fresh in my mind.

With that logic, every one here, who participated by giving their feedback, their opinions on the game, offering suggestions, all of them should think that the game isn't for them.

People are allowed to offer their criticisms and suggestions (even if sometime they express themselves in a way that's very…passionate) without being told that it's not their place and that the game isn't made for them.

To me, that question just seems like fake benevolence, hiding a rude attitude and dismissiveness of others opinions.

I follow Cohh replying BG1 and BG2, and as my perception is that the insinuation of sex, whores, concubines etc, their voices, their stances, and how they aproach, or the avatar pictures with boob and binki styles... and mind you everything has evolved, be it violence and the combat, that pixely combat is today far far more grafical, and in the same scope i state the romance/sexual nature is in line with that... but that is my preception

What is the mature and healthy way to approach it? You are not the first person who uses these words. What do they even mean?

Again. Doesn't matter. The point remains. If they make it worse in terms of vulgarity and sex, I'm out, and many will be as well. If the game is just full of sex and crude humor, it will turn off a lot of fans and they will not likely buy the game or buy any future Larian games.

Here's my final argument. Sex appeals to some and draws them to the game. Remove sex and those individuals may not buy anymore Larian games. Loss of future sales. Sex also turns people off to the game. Leave sex in and you may lose those individuals, thus affecting sales for BG3 and future games. Provide an option for streamers and those who don't wanna see sex and such while giving people who want it the option, both sides are happy. No loss in sales and even future sales.

Regardless, it's Larian's choice and they have to live with it, just as it is my choice whether I finish the game or buy another Larian game, and whether I recommend a Larian game to others, including BG3. It is what it is no matter what we say.

And yet, I say again, I still support the option to censor no matter your argument.

It seems like there's a number of folks on all sides of this discussion who are falling more into the trap of picking each other apart, than having a directed conversation about a topic; the thread hasn't really covered any new ground in the past two pages, and is drifting more into side topics that some folks are mostly just using to pick and poke at one another. I know it's not my place, but I'd like to encourage all sides of the debate to take a step or two and a breath or two, and focus back in on the opinion you want to voice about the topic at hand, and focus less on trying to tear down people who think or feel otherwise.

The original topic title doesn't help, I admit - it's a bit inflammatory ^.^

Pachanj asked about reasons why they should be there, well for me, several reasons:

- It's a chance to explore an element of my character and define who they are and what they're like in this aspect, and to me that's important.
- Similarly, it's a chance to see other characters at personal and intimate moments, and there's a strong element of immersion involved in having the sorts of conversations that only really happen in intimate pillow scenarios, actually in those scenarios, rather than after the fact with all our clothes back on, where it feels out of place or stilted.
- The immersion element extends to stepping into the place of my character and (ideally) having some influence over how they act and behave in that scenario - and mentally exploring what they experience during it; imagination always plays an important role here, of course, and does the majority of the heavy lifting, but if it's done well, I appreciate the scaffolding of a scene playing out in the process.
- Character direction in intimate sequences also opens up the opportunity for more character customisation in intimate ways; having a complete character and being able to describe many more elements of what that looks like; I personally view this as a positive, though for accessibility, of course, defining your character's intimate details and traits should be optional (in the way that some games do this, it's a check box in character creation that, when you click to enable it, then opens up the related menus and options, but has them not visually existing before you select to engage - I'd like that)
- Lastly, because I'm an adult woman and it's a bit of naughty fun, and I really feel like games can be better if they're more comfortable with some naughty fun adult activity as a natural part of the world and lives they build and portray.


All this turns on the supposition, however, that the scenes as they are need to be vastly improved in their atmosphere, pacing, tone and shooting/choreography to really be satisfying in this way - but I genuinely want them improved, and I don't want Larian to back off from his or get scared. I want them to do better, now that they've taken the biggest step of deciding to go all in.