Originally Posted by The_Red_Queen
I can see that’s less of a benefit for experienced DnD players who would no doubt be able to come up with more interesting ranger concepts in their sleep, and for whom my thinking about what I can do with the ranger abilities is probably unsophisticated and old hat - and I’m sure in some cases just plain mistaken - but it’s still really handy for me as someone who only plays the odd single-player RPG as a place to start from!

To illustrate, if we take the existing FE options:
  • Bounty Hunter: Archetypal ranger or stealthy hunter? Probably with a bow or rapier, with the boost to their signature Ensnaring Strike ability and the Investigation skill proficiency which is a thematically appropriate class skill, but nice to get for “free” given it would often be hard to prioritise as it’s INT based rather than synergising with one of the key ranger stats. The more general utility of this FE option to rangers is balanced by the fact that the Ensnaring Strike option is only likely to start becoming useful at level 2 when you get the spell, and it’s probably going to encourage a build that doesn’t focus on the other ranger signature, Hunter’s Mark, which would be in competition with Ensnaring Strike for concentration and spell slots.
  • Mage Breaker: Suggests interesting backstory for RP, with an Arcana proficiency that rangers wouldn’t normally have access to. INT based so they’re not going to be great at it anyway, but good enough to give a different flavour. True Strike isn’t great and I agree this FE is a candidate for some improvement, but it’s fun to think about whether it could be leveraged. It’s a cantrip so at least no spell slot worry. And while generally two normal attacks would be better than one with advantage, conversely one normal attack might be better than two with disadvantage (is it given to Mage Breakers because it might therefore be useful against a Blurred opponent?). Could a ranger with Two Weapon fighting use it to cast and then offhand attack in the same round so they don’t need to maintain concentration in the interim? Might it be useful for a ranger who wanted to increase the chance of one of their scarce spells hitting and was willing to expend a turn to do it?
  • Protector of the Veil: Has great RP potential given the way the plot of the game seems to be going, and Arcana proficiency like the Mage Hunter. Protection from Evil and Good once a day could be handy given the antagonists we seem to be facing and gives the ranger a slight cleric or paladin vibe that can be played up with other character choices. As it uses concentration the ranger is not going to be able to use Ensnaring Strike or Hunter’s Mark at the same time, so this is going to encourage a build that doesn’t rely on those abilities.
  • Ranger Knight: With heavy armour to lug around (and which negates DEX bonus to AC), this is probably going to encourage a strength based ranger. It will certainly be extremely useful for any ranger who wants to prioritise high AC and doesn’t care about being sneaky (setting aside the dodgy stealth mechanics of the game currently, anyway), and saves them having to take the Heavily Armored feat, so makes sense it doesn’t also come with an active ability. History proficiency is a nice touch that rangers wouldn’t normally get, also INT based so rangers again aren’t going to be great at it, but it’s enough to add flavour, eg more successful lore checks related to history (particularly later in the game when proficiency bonuses increase).
  • Sanctified Stalker: Like Mage Breaker, a potentially interesting back story with an appropriate skill proficiency that rangers don’t normally get: Religion in this case. A ranger with a hint of cleric or druid, perhaps? And they probably are going to have to prioritise WIS more than your average ranger if they’re going to get any benefit from that Radiant Flame cantrip. I agree it’s still pretty underwhelming in EA, though as discussed in this thread will improve later and could still be situationally useful. And if you’re going to pump more into WIS anyway, you might as well look for other ways your ranger could benefit from this. At the moment, that looks mainly to be by being a better healer (given the bonus to HP healed) and use of abilities for which a higher spell save DC would be helpful.

An interesting take, but also one I could hardly disagree with more. Whereas you seem to consider the features good because they provide roleplaying avenues, I consider these unneeded and unwanted roleplaying crutches that are covered in a myriad of ways, from backgrounds, skills, feats, subclasses, and most of all by the player's own imagination. Too many roleplaying fluff features is, I believe, universally recognized as part of the core problems 5e Rangers suffer from alongside too many situational and overly specialized features. Larian has acknowledged issues with the 5e Ranger (which is why their homebrew deviates so radically), but has clearly failed to understand it.

Hunter's Mark is a staple spell as it makes the Ranger's (primarily a damage dealing class) damage somewhat relevant and anything that is offered as an alternative for that concentration should be seen in this light. The Bounty Hunter comes close as it buffs an alternative while D&D will likely remove concentration aspect from Hunter's Mark in the upcoming new PHB edition (speaking to its importance to the class) and free the Ranger from having to choose between decent damage and versatility. You don't really incentivise an exciting alternative playstyle as much as you incentivise counter-synergic/antagonistic gameplay - unless the player has a good deal of metagaming knowledge.

Larian's Ranger homebrew is unbalanced on top of this and offers really bad "trap" choices like True Strike which is universally considered a horrible cantrip and more so for Hunter's Mark reliant Rangers. Where's Larian homebrew when it is called for? Sacred Flame is another trap choice - pitiful on a martial class. Protection from E/G is decent, but not when competing with Hunter's Mark. At the very least offer a free casting. The proficiencies are barely passable for Rangers as they are not thematic/obscure and Intelligence-based which is considered a dump-stat for Rangers. The Ranger Knight is clearly a stronger choice than most/all others given how much Larian has buffed Strength gameplay through their Shove and Jump mechanics, and having this appear to be the best choice is doubly problematic as it is a mismatch with what Rangers are supposed to be thematically. It's like making the "Armored Hulk" the best Rogue "subclass". Besides there are better subclasses (eg Oath of Ancients) that cover this kind of style anyway - so it doesn't really offer anything new. At least change recommended ability to Strength if you pick this so players new to D&D doesn't waste their points on Dex (another potential trap).

Last edited by Seraphael; 31/12/22 11:26 PM.