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#840193 06/01/23 10:19 PM
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Hey guys,

Short long story... I'm trying to mod the game to test a few suggestions I have in mind. Reworking arrows is one of them.


I have to say that I don't particularly find special arrows appealing in BG3.

The additionnal damages that done are pretty weak for "rare" consumables (1D4) and on a sucessfull saving throw, ennemy can entirely avoid them.
When I'm playing with arrows I have the feeling that surface effects are their main feature while additionnal elemental damages may eventually be the cherry on the cake.

But what I usually like with such arrows in cRPG is that I can do more damage... and "fancy" damages like elemental ones.

I don't particularly hate surfaces but some of them are completely overpowered and some of them are not very appealing to me.

- Fire is cool but overpowered. It always apply Burning which guarantee 1D4 damage each turn for 3 turns (with concentration checks and so on).
- Electrify water is very situational and/or can already be done with many spells.
- Acid may be cool but against specific and powerfull ennemies.
- Ice is also cool but not something I would use very often.

In many situations, I'd just like to be able to use those arrows to deal additionnal elemental damages but the solution I have to control their % to hit doesn't worth it.
%to hit is something very easy to understand and eventually, to influence. Saving throw are definitely not something you can understand at first glance and play fast with.
It does not worth to waste time looking at ennemies abilities, using spells to reduce their ST or anything else for such small additionnal damages.

I'd just like to be able to deal additionnal elemental damages without having to spend all night to understand what saving throw mean and what I can do to influence this very specific one (strenght for detonation, dexterity for many and something else for other).

Then there are a few very special arrow like in exemple the arrow of detonation that makes me ANGRY more than once because his "fancy" effects (it is the pushing arrow).

But I really LOVE special arrows in games and especially in DnD games.
Characters playing with ranged weapons usually don't have a lot of skills and especially unique one with their bows.
Magical arrows are ranged characters "spells", and I like that a lot (sure, in BG3 there are a few weapons attack on top of that wich is great).


=> I decided to rework some arrows and I really have a lot more fun with them !
Now using them is really interresting in most situations and fire them on a target or on the ground really feel different ! I guess this is a suggestion part.

- the damages are upgraded to 1D6 for every arrow type
- the elemental damages are done if the attack roll is sucessfull (no additionnal saving throw, you apply normal damage + 1D6 or you miss entirely)
- surface and explode radius have been adjusted so all arrows are more or less balanced arround surface effects. What makes them easy to understand at first glance is +1d6 if you hit but surfaces may add another layer to play with.

Here is how it looks like :

Arrow of fire
- Shoot on a target : Attack roll (Weapon damage + mod dex + 1D6 fire) + don't create surface and never apply burning.
- Shoot on the ground : Create a very small surface under the characters feet (auto apply burning) - you can hit 1 character with the surface.

Arrow of ice
- Shoot on a target : Attack roll (Weapon damage + mod dex + 1D6 cold) + create surface under and arround the character. The target and very close characters can slip if they fail their ST
- Shoot on the ground : Create an area that can make the characters slip on a ST (shoot on the ground give you a better control over the surface, you can apply it under more characters. I'd say 3 to 4 close characters while 2-3 if you target a character)

Arrow of acid
- Shoot on a target : Attack roll (Weapon damage + mod dex + 1D6 acid) + Apply Acid (-2 AC) on the target.
- Shoot on the ground : Create a very small area that auto apply +2AC to all characters (you can more or less apply acid to 2 characters)

Arrow of lightning
- Shoot on a target : Attack roll - Weapon damage + mod dex + 1D6 electricity
- Shoot on the ground : Electrify water (may shock characters)

Arrow of Detonation
- Shoot on a target or on the ground : Weapon damage + mod dex + 1D4 force to all target in the area.

It may not be perfectly balance of course but now using arrows on the ground or directly on target feel a lot more different to me.
Surface damages or direct damages seems to be a question the game is asking to players. Currently it just say : do it and you'll see if you have everything or not !

It would become cool but rare enough items to use in most situation rather than overpowered and/or suface foccussed items.
I personnaly like playing with this suggestion turned ON. An attack roll that may deal additionnal elemental damages is better than a saving throw that allow characters to avoid them entirely according to me.


Here is the code if you want to try / if you want to look at it.
Thanks to BG3 discord modding community that helped me a lot (again !)

new entry "Projectile_ArrowOfDetonation"
type "SpellData"
data "SpellType" "Projectile"
using "Projectile_MainHandAttack"
data "SpellProperties" ""
data "ExplodeRadius" "2"
data "SpellSuccess" "DealDamage(max(1,MainRangedWeapon), MainRangedWeaponDamageType); ExecuteWeaponFunctors(MainHand);DealDamage(1d4, Force)"
data "Trajectories" "46de315c-71f5-4848-818a-dbec9c93583b,101c0773-4de6-7fb3-142a-1916711614aa,09286832-7a86-6f58-0710-bd90b9148455"
data "Icon" "Item_ARR_Arrow_Of_Detonation"
data "DisplayName" "Shared_Projectile_ArrowOfDetonation_DisplayName"
data "Description" "Une chance d'infliger 1d4 dégats de force supplémentaire aux cibles situées dans les 2 mètres autour de la zone d'impact"
data "DescriptionParams" "DealDamage(MainRangedWeapon, MainRangedWeaponDamageType); DealDamage(1d4,Force)"
data "TooltipDamageList" "DealDamage(MainRangedWeapon, MainRangedWeaponDamageType); DealDamage(1d4,Force)"
data "DescriptionParams" "Distance(3)"
data "CastSound" "Proj_Arr_Cast_ArrowOfDetonation"
data "SpellFlags" "HasHighGroundRangeExtension;RangeIgnoreVerticalThreshold;IsHarmful;AddFallDamageOnLand;DisplayInItemTooltip"
data "PrepareEffect" "b7096c7b-7d2a-405a-907c-ea2a50edb660"
data "CastEffect" "c1a2c14e-e131-405c-b140-513c53e45117"

new entry "Projectile_ArrowOfFire"
type "SpellData"
data "SpellType" "Projectile"
using "Projectile_MainHandAttack"
data "SpellProperties" "GROUND:SurfaceChange(Ignite); GROUND:SurfaceChange(Melt);GROUND:CreateSurface(0.5,,Fire);CreateExplosion(Projectile_ArrowOfFire_Burning);IF(Item()):ApplyStatus(BURNING, 100, 2)"
data "ExplodeRadius" "0.5"
data "SpellSuccess" "DealDamage(max(1,MainRangedWeapon), MainRangedWeaponDamageType); ExecuteWeaponFunctors(MainHand);DealDamage(1d6, Fire)"
data "Trajectories" "a987eb34-3d51-42fb-ba62-d2ebfbdc58c0,632d947d-cc8b-13ec-871d-f35e8eb42799,35087a9c-89ce-781b-a81b-e5ade6b3848d"
data "Icon" "Item_ARR_Arrow_Of_Fire"
data "DisplayName" "Shared_Projectile_ArrowOfFire_DisplayName"
data "Description" "Shared_Projectile_ArrowOfFire_Description"
data "DescriptionParams" "DealDamage(MainRangedWeapon, MainRangedWeaponDamageType);DealDamage(1d4,Fire)"
data "TooltipDamageList" "DealDamage(MainRangedWeapon, MainRangedWeaponDamageType);DealDamage(1d4,Fire)"
data "CastSound" "Proj_Arr_Cast_Arrow_Of_Fire"
data "SpellFlags" "HasHighGroundRangeExtension;RangeIgnoreVerticalThreshold;IsHarmful;DisplayInItemTooltip"
data "HitAnimationType" "MagicalDamage_External"
data "PrepareEffect" "058553a4-1630-44ff-b08a-4c9dea9a6b32"
data "CastEffect" "b26abd87-14b7-4ed0-93d1-f424bc4fa236"

new entry "Projectile_ArrowOfFire_Burning"
type "SpellData"
data "SpellType" "Projectile"
using "Projectile_ArrowOfFire"
data "SpellProperties" "IF(not Character()):ApplyStatus(BURNING, 100, 2)"
data "ExplodeRadius" "6"
data "SpellRoll" ""
data "SpellSuccess" ""
data "SpellFail" ""
data "Trajectories" "f346b284-854e-4dd9-b87c-3938f5178265"
data "CastSound" ""
data "PrepareEffect" ""
data "CastEffect" ""

new entry "Projectile_ArrowOfIce"
type "SpellData"
data "SpellType" "Projectile"
using "Projectile_MainHandAttack"
data "SpellProperties" "GROUND:SurfaceChange(Freeze); GROUND:CreateSurface(2,,WaterFrozen);"
data "ExplodeRadius" "0.5"
data "SpellSuccess" "DealDamage(max(1,MainRangedWeapon), MainRangedWeaponDamageType); ExecuteWeaponFunctors(MainHand);DealDamage(1d6, Cold)"
data "Trajectories" "b8b95321-ab56-4613-8160-ef7153d315aa,8c9aaf1d-7f1b-ae33-13d6-4a406dbc6ca6,20840c5b-a3df-5483-c071-118de86c1fa1"
data "Icon" "Item_ARR_Arrow_Of_Ice"
data "DisplayName" "Shared_Projectile_ArrowOfIce_DisplayName"
data "Description" "Une chance d'infliger 2d4 dégats de glace supplémentaire à une cible. Gel le sol et peut faire glisser ceux qui s'y trouvent"
data "DescriptionParams" "DealDamage(MainRangedWeapon, MainRangedWeaponDamageType); DealDamage(2d4,Cold)"
data "TooltipDamageList" "DealDamage(MainRangedWeapon, MainRangedWeaponDamageType); DealDamage(2d4,Cold)"
data "CastSound" "Proj_Arr_Cast_Arrow_Ice"
data "SpellFlags" "HasHighGroundRangeExtension;RangeIgnoreVerticalThreshold;IsHarmful;DisplayInItemTooltip"
data "PrepareEffect" "62bfb923-6000-4022-931f-f9c0fac3b6a0"
data "CastEffect" "4ab28ec5-1118-4c4b-9376-ba03e8aed6ea"

new entry "Projectile_ArrowOfAcid"
type "SpellData"
data "SpellType" "Projectile"
using "Projectile_MainHandAttack"
data "SpellProperties" "GROUND:CreateSurface(1,,Acid);"
data "ExplodeRadius" "0.5"
data "SpellSuccess" "DealDamage(max(1,MainRangedWeapon), MainRangedWeaponDamageType); ExecuteWeaponFunctors(MainHand);DealDamage(1d6, Acid)"
data "Trajectories" "1cee65a9-20fa-4b5f-9e38-c31035bdec76,142ec2e2-0288-509e-0dde-93e7a53c79f9,c8ebf2a3-074b-e643-c017-c5c1be4f8092"
data "Icon" "Item_ARR_Arrow_Of_Acid"
data "DisplayName" "Shared_Projectile_ArrowOfAcid_DisplayName"
data "Description" "Jet d'attaque pour dégats normaux + jds pour 1d4 de poison + jds pour statut acide pendant 3 tours (-2AC)"
data "DescriptionParams" "DealDamage(MainRangedWeapon, MainRangedWeaponDamageType); DealDamage(1d4,Acid)"
data "TooltipDamageList" "DealDamage(MainRangedWeapon, MainRangedWeaponDamageType); DealDamage(1d4,Acid)"
data "CastSound" "Proj_Arr_Cast_ArrowOfAcid"
data "SpellFlags" "HasHighGroundRangeExtension;RangeIgnoreVerticalThreshold;IsHarmful;DisplayInItemTooltip"
data "HitAnimationType" "MagicalDamage_External"
data "PrepareEffect" "17d73412-9f44-4080-975f-f79b7a2921bc"
data "CastEffect" "85559b54-6970-4d3a-8c68-0f661d25c60c"

new entry "Projectile_ArrowOfLightning"
type "SpellData"
data "SpellType" "Projectile"
using "Projectile_MainHandAttack"
data "SpellProperties" "GROUND:SurfaceChange(Electrify);"
data "ExplodeRadius" "0.5"
data "SpellSuccess" "DealDamage(max(1,MainRangedWeapon), MainRangedWeaponDamageType); ExecuteWeaponFunctors(MainHand);DealDamage(1d6, Lightning)"
data "Trajectories" "e11d8ca4-6880-4876-88af-220851075f80,66917ab1-c0d9-70fd-2ca6-f0149ac62ec5,e7130737-bc9b-e7f3-a3ba-9f788e99ae2d"
data "Icon" "Item_ARR_Arrow_Of_Lightning"
data "DisplayName" "Shared_Projectile_ArrowOfLightning_DisplayName"
data "Description" "Shared_Projectile_ArrowOfLightning_Description"
data "DescriptionParams" "DealDamage(MainRangedWeapon, MainRangedWeaponDamageType); DealDamage(1d4,Lightning)"
data "TooltipDamageList" "DealDamage(MainRangedWeapon, MainRangedWeaponDamageType); DealDamage(1d4,Lightning)"
data "CastSound" "Proj_Arr_Cast_Arrow_Of_Lightning"
data "SpellFlags" "HasHighGroundRangeExtension;RangeIgnoreVerticalThreshold;IsHarmful;DisplayInItemTooltip"
data "HitAnimationType" "MagicalDamage_Electric"
data "PrepareEffect" "80b941f4-9dc6-4236-a3a2-51d470582411"
data "CastEffect" "733aaa75-f2eb-49fd-be6c-0f283de55b6f"

Last edited by Maximuuus; 06/01/23 10:24 PM.

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Not a fan of this "aim on target / aim on the ground" idea. :-/
Concidering how often i click to attack in second when some freaking animation is happening and my cursor sudently aims at something entirely different ... or how often i have some problem with camera positioning and have to aim via turn order menu, wich would effectively remove option to use "aim on the ground" ... sry, dont like it at all. :-/
I mean its not bad ...
But i would just need some "more ensured" aiming metod if you understand what i mean ... toggle, "pseudoreaction" (something that uses reaction popups, but dont use reaction resource), setting ... something like that.

Rest of the idea is quite cool ...
Not really sure if elemental arrows actualy "need" damage boost ... but dont really mind it either. laugh

Except Detonation Arrow ...
Im sory, but "pure magical power" still dont fit well with explosives to me ... things that explore should in my honest opinion do fire damage, thunder damage, and possibly piercing damage for shrapnels ... but i just can understand the meaning of Force there. :-/

And to be completely honest, i believe this change would also need Spellcasting rework ... since right now, even Cantrips electrify/freeze surfaces you are standing on. O_o
As long as Arrows work the same, it seems more fair than remove it from one, and leave it to another.

Originally Posted by Maximuuus
- Shoot on the ground : Create a very small area that auto apply +2AC to all characters (you can more or less apply acid to 2 characters)
I believe you wanted to write -2AC here? smile

Last edited by RagnarokCzD; 06/01/23 10:51 PM.

I still dont understand why cant we change Race for our hirelings. frown
Lets us play Githyanki as racist as they trully are! frown
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Arrow of Detonation is the former "fireball arrow" from the predecessors. I guess you mean the knock back arrow: https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Arrow+of+Roaring+Thunder

I would correctly rename the arrows to projectiles in general because only bows use arrows. Bullets / stones are for slingshots and bolts are for crossbows. No idea why Larian calls everything arrows...

I think your approach of only creating surfaces with indirect targeting isn't so bad. Then you can deal direct damage to enemies and reduce the chance of accidentally hurting your own party members or neutral NPCs.

For a direct hit, I would slightly increase the elemental damage and for an indirect hit, reduce the AoE damage accordingly.

Last edited by Lotus Noctus; 06/01/23 11:05 PM.
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Can't use arrows because they don't work with Battle Master ranged or Sneak Attack. I have never used these in any of my runs.

Until they add Battle Master and Sneak Attack to the new Reaction system, there is no incentive for me.

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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Not a fan of this "aim on target / aim on the ground" idea. :-/
Concidering how often i click to attack in second when some freaking animation is happening and my cursor sudently aims at something entirely different ... or how often i have some problem with camera positioning and have to aim via turn order menu, wich would effectively remove option to use "aim on the ground" ... sry, dont like it at all. :-/
I mean its not bad ...
But i would just need some "more ensured" aiming metod if you understand what i mean ... toggle, "pseudoreaction" (something that uses reaction popups, but dont use reaction resource), setting ... something like that.

Rest of the idea is quite cool ...
Not really sure if elemental arrows actualy "need" damage boost ... but dont really mind it either. laugh

Except Detonation Arrow ...
Im sory, but "pure magical power" still dont fit well with explosives to me ... things that explore should in my honest opinion do fire damage, thunder damage, and possibly piercing damage for shrapnels ... but i just can understand the meaning of Force there. :-/

And to be completely honest, i believe this change would also need Spellcasting rework ... since right now, even Cantrips electrify/freeze surfaces you are standing on. O_o
As long as Arrows work the same, it seems more fair than remove it from one, and leave it to another.


Originally Posted by Maximuuus
- Shoot on the ground : Create a very small area that auto apply +2AC to all characters (you can more or less apply acid to 2 characters)
I believe you wanted to write -2AC here? smile

I'm surprised you don't like the idea of surface or target because if I remember correctly, both of us were in line on the matter when Larian implemented Chromatic Orb.
Whatever, I first tried to create a container (like chromatic orb/command/...) for an attack on target and an attack on the ground but I wasn't able to make it work correctly.

I personnaly think that as suggested, it increase the tactical possibilities and the role play options rather than just giving one option (sure, you can target ground or target but it currently have the same effects).

I mostly see "force damage" as the Force in Star Wars. The arrow of detonnation VFX perfectly match with that kind of "detonnation" in my opinion.
Cantrip does not create surfaces. Arrows do (except for thunder). But that's already how it works in the game so I don't understand why this changes would require to change anything else.

-2AC, of course smile


Originally Posted by Lotus Noctus
Arrow of Detonation is the former "fireball arrow" from the predecessors. I guess you mean the knock back arrow: https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Arrow+of+Roaring+Thunder

This one is named arrow of detonation in the code but yes : I'm talking about the pushing arrow.

Last edited by Maximuuus; 07/01/23 04:59 PM.

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Originally Posted by gaymer
Can't use arrows because they don't work with Battle Master ranged or Sneak Attack. I have never used these in any of my runs.
And this here is really bad design again.

Ammo should be just that.. ammo. It's not a special ability that can't be used with other special abilities. They should add a Quiver UI to bows where you could select the ammo you are using.

I'm in favor of less powerful but more plentiful magic arrows. Would be cool if you could actually run out of arrows, too. It should be a strategic consideration how invested your archer is in melee for a backup.

I actually haven't used any of the arrows either. I think I'm subconsciously staying away because of how gamey and silly most of them are. The push arrows and acid pool arrows especially feel more arcade game than serious RPG to me. It's ok to stretch realism in a fantasy game but the stuff Larian does just shamelessly breaks any immersion of a "real world". You could have all this stuff in the Forgotten Realms, but Larian just takes everything too far.

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The arrows are more similar to throwing a bomb with your ... bow. Less an arrow than a throwable. I think they should just be reworked into that: bombs. Let us craft poisons for arrows. Slowing down enemy movement, poison per turn, breaking concentration, perhaps reducing enemy accuracy -- that sort of thing. As is, special arrows work either like throwables or spell scrolls for archers. Fine, but not good. Too awkward.

Last edited by Silver/; 07/01/23 08:52 PM. Reason: clarification
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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
I'm surprised you don't like the idea of surface or target because if I remember correctly, both of us were in line on the matter when Larian implemented Chromatic Orb.
Dunno ... maybe i was and noticed this flaw a little later, but since i did, im completely against any automatization ... i believe that player should have full control over their actions.
When i want to attack an enemy, i want to make sure i will attack enemy, not create surface around him/her/them/it ... maybe im just super clumsy, but it happens to me often enough to be anoying. laugh

Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Whatever, I first tried to create a container (like chromatic orb/command/...) for an attack on target and an attack on the ground but I wasn't able to make it work correctly.
I didnt even try to watch technical side ...

But yeah, such dedicated bar where you pick "surface" / "target" would be great! :3

Originally Posted by Maximuuus
I personnaly think that as suggested, it increase the tactical possibilities and the role play options rather than just giving one option (sure, you can target ground or target but it currently have the same effects).
I agree with this part ...

All i dislike is that auto change depending on where you mouse is curently aiming, especialy since i know there are situations where difference would be fragment of millimeter. :-/
What you suggested abowe (that picking ... "container"? :D) would solve this for me and this idea would get straight insignificant +1 from me. laugh

Originally Posted by Maximuuus
I mostly see "force damage" as the Force in Star Wars.
This sounds about right ... as long as you remember that Force is much more than just Telekinesis. smile
Yes, it allows to move objects with your mind ... but its the same energy that allows you to read other people feelings, see glimpses of future, supernaturaly affect their way of thinking, force your own will on them, or create energy blasts that looks like lightning.
And much, much more. smile

Originally Posted by Maximuuus
The arrow of detonnation VFX perfectly match with that kind of "detonnation" in my opinion.
Its just Bomb on a stick, i know. laugh

I just ... i dunno, it simply feels wrong ...
Pure Force damage should be pure magical energy, i think we should be somehow able to condensate magical energy for later uses ...
(and i probably should not describe how, even tho i have some ideas, bcs i just dont know how they fit into DnD ... but usualy magical power is stored within crystals in fantasy ... break a crystal > release magic ... if you know what i mean)

But this? O_o
Smokepowder Satchel ...
Or Bomb ... (wich for some reason have no entry on wiki so far) ...

There is nothing magical on theese things ... they are regular, mechanical, explosives, just as we have in real world ...
Sure, people will say something like "but black powder in Forgotten Realms is infused with magic" ... and i say fine, make it infused, no problem 1d4 Force + 2d4 Fire + 9 Thunder ... instead 3d4 + 9 Force ... that simply dont make sense, bcs that item is not pure magic. :-/

The only explosive that i can understand having more Force damage is Runepowder ...
Still i would like it much more to be superpowerfull not bcs it have much bigger numbers, but bcs its formula is turned around to 1d4 Fire + 2d4 Force + 9 Thunder ... like, you know "much more magic, much less technology, but still technological"!

Seems more interesting to me than "big magic boom" and "much biger magic boom". frown

Originally Posted by Maximuuus
But that's already how it works in the game so I don't understand why this changes would require to change anything else.
Bcs i dont like it and would like much more if it would all work the same ...
Besides, i didnt say that cantrips are "creating" surface ... they are "interacting" with surfaces allready existing ... and i feel it would be much better, if they wouldnt.


I still dont understand why cant we change Race for our hirelings. frown
Lets us play Githyanki as racist as they trully are! frown
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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
I'm surprised you don't like the idea of surface or target because if I remember correctly, both of us were in line on the matter when Larian implemented Chromatic Orb.
Dunno ... maybe i was and noticed this flaw a little later, but since i did, im completely against any automatization ... i believe that player should have full control over their actions.
When i want to attack an enemy, i want to make sure i will attack enemy, not create surface around him/her/them/it ... maybe im just super clumsy, but it happens to me often enough to be anoying. laugh

It is pretty clear in game though.
If you have a %to hit it's that you attack a target. If you don't you are targetting the ground.

Of course the system is not perfect and that is true for all spells. Sometimes you click to create a surface, the UI makes you think that 2 characters are in the area of effetct but finally none of them are... The circle under characters is changing as if they were in the area of effect even if they are not. That's something I noticed while doing tests with arrows.

If I'm not wrong, if the radius indicator of the AOE is not in the middle point of the circle under characters : they are not in the AOE. That's something I should try a bit more and report.

Last edited by Maximuuus; 07/01/23 10:53 PM.

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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
It is pretty clear in game though.
If you have a %to hit it's that you attack a target. If you don't you are targetting the ground.
You dont understand me ...

The world is animated, enemies are not frozen, they are constantly moving ...
You are aiming on the ground, in between 3 goblins legs, bcs they are all close together ... you are satisfyed with your aiming, click ... BUT!!! ... exactly in that moment, one of those goblins wawed his hand, or moved his head, or scratched his butt, doesnt really matter ...
SO when you carefully aimed your AoE action, just bcs there are animations, your cursor were actualy over Goblin, rather than ground ... therefore you attacked a Goblin, even if you didnt want to.
(Or vice-versa.)

If you would have some fix way to pick AoE / target ...
Sure, there is still risk that you will be aiming target but instead you accidentally shoot to the ground, for same reason (he just moved when you click) ... but at least you dont compromise your teammates by creating *insert element here* surface instead of attack. laugh


I still dont understand why cant we change Race for our hirelings. frown
Lets us play Githyanki as racist as they trully are! frown

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