Hello,
If I remember correctly patch 5 introduced weapons attack like cleave, pommel strike and so on.
Let's be honnest : I played tons of playthrough since they are implemented in game and I mostly never use them.
I like the idea a lot but I really don't find them appealing currently for a few reasons.
1) FEEDBACK
1.1) Cooldown never make sense
It doesn't make sense that I can only try to attack someone's legs (crippling strike) once per rest.
It doesn't make sense that I can only use the pommel of my weapon (pommel strike) once per rest.
It doesn't make sense that I can only target someone's chest (heartstopper) once per rest.
It does make sense that the power flowing into faithbreaker needs time to recharge. This thread is not about "special" weapons attacks/powers.
"Common" weapons attacks are combat actions : not magical charges or class features. Cooldown does not make sense.
1.2) The distribution of attacks doesn't always make sense
It doesn't make sense that I can only charge (spring attack) with a spear, a glaive, a hallberd, a longsword, a pike or a trident.
It doesn't make sens that I can only feint (opening attack) with a rapier, a scimitar or a shortsword.
It doesn't make sens that I can only try to target someone's legs (hamstring shot) with bows.
It does make sense that ALL bludgeoning weapons allow me to use Concussive Smash !
1.3) The system is overwhelming
There are too many different "common" weapons attack ("common" =/= "special" attacks from magical weapons).
There are too many status dedicated to weapons attack, sometimes with very little variations or that have a very situational effects (disadvantage on ST wisdom, or dext, or...).
Weapons attacks are too changeable.
1.4) Balance is mostly all about cooldown
Weapons attacks are often stronger than normal attacks (same damages but with additionnal status effects), the only thing that "balance" them is cooldown.
With how easy it is to rest use them is not even a choice : it is THE choice. Eventually players have to define when even if it doesn't often really matter.
Conclusion
=> In the end, it is mostly impossible to remember/understand what weapons for what attacks and what attacks for what effects.
=> It is mostly impossible to use these skills as a part of our "build", except eventually if players agree to always use the same weapon.
=> Weapons attacks are often actions "to use before you rest" rather than additionnal tactical (or eventually role play) choices.
=> Many weapons attacks are very situational.
=> The hotbar is changing a lot.
As a consequence, I personnally don't have any strong appeal towards them.
I use pommel strike when I don't know what to do with my bonus action. I may use spring attack when my tank has the right weapon equiped. I sometimes use cleave. And that's mostly it.
I like the idea hidden behind weapons attacks, but not how it currently is in game.
2) SUGGESTION
The game already offer us common actions and common bonus actions.
On top of that, I'd like to have common weapons attacks that may be slightly different depending the weapons you are using... but without ever being overwhelming.
Keep in mind that there are a lot of exemples below. I'm not saying it should be "exactly" like that, just trying to make you understand my idea.
Every details are not clear in my mind yet : that's something I'm currently working on.
2.1) More systematic weapons attacks => to understand easier/faster what weapons for what attacks, to keep them longer in our hotbar, to play more often with some of them.
In my opinion, all weapons should have 3 weapons attacks : 1 common to all weapons, 1 common to clearly defined subgroups, 1 common to other subgroups that may vary a bit more.
- Common for all melee : Charge (spring attaclk)
-- All melee bludgeoning : Concussive smash
-- All melee slashing : Opening strike
-- All melee piercing : Lacerate (or anything else that apply bleeding)
--- 2H : Cleave
--- All 1H : Pommel Strike
--- All versatile : Crippling strike
- Common for all ranged : hamstring shot
-- Common for all bows : prepared
-- Common for all crossbows : piercing shot
If I'm not wrong there are currently 15 weapons attacks in the game. Here it is already 11 different attacks.
Of course subgroups, especially the third layer could be a bit more complicated. It would mean that an attack may change often, another may change sometimes and another may never change.
That is jut an idea that would make things a lot clearer and that should make most of our weapons attack change less often. If they changed less often we will be able to learn to play with them... and I personnaly like better playing with something I understand and remember than having to read tooltips over and over again.
2.2) Less status effects / Well known effects / Clearer tooltips
In my opinion the number of status effects should be reduced and rationalized. Many of them are already small variations of existing status or their effects doesn't worth it at all.
Off balance is somekind of prone. Dazed is somekind of Stunned. Crippled is somekind of Hamstring shot. Gaping wounds is +2 damages against the target ( Which is useless at the beginning and will be useless later).
The small variations / bonuses in many status doesn't worth at all the time is takes to understand and remember the attack effects.
DnD is already complex enough and there are already a lot of status players understand/know from BG3 mechanics (surfaces, common actions/bonus actions...) , from DnD or from other games : bleeding, prone, reduce movement, can't use it's action, reduce armor,...
=> Adding a disadvantage on ST to a status, no reaction to another, loose dexterity bonus to his armor class and so on only makes things too complicated to read / to understand / to remember and to play with.
You should keep it simple in my opinion. Just a few exemples :
- Spring attack could have a chance to apply prone rather than "off balanced".
- Bleeding could make 1 more damage per turn to the target without giving a disadvantage on constitution ST.
- Opening Strike could just give advantage to the next attacks.
=> keep it as simple as possible and don't add status for the sake of it please.
About tooltips... I understand why everything has to be a status in the game's code but tooltips and explanations don't have to be as overwhelming as the code.
A bad exemple : piercing shot
Currently in the game : You highlight piercing shot and read the tooltip / you press T to block the tooltip / you highlight gaping wounds / you read gaping wounds tooltip.
A good exemple : Harmstring shot.
Currently in the game : When you highlight Harmstring shot you understand that this attack may reduce the target's speed by 50% (and the status hamstrung is not even mentionned).
=> Players should never have to open the tooltip of a tooltip to understand what an attack effect is about. Making things easier would also allow to make tooltips clearer.
2.3) Unlimited uses per rest / balance
In my opinion, weapons attack could be a lot more interresting if they were not only balanced with cooldowns.
I'd like to be able to use some "common" weapons actions a lot more often. This would allow us to play a lot more with them.
I'd like my melee characters to be able to charge ennemies even if they already had.
I'd like my archer to be able to try again to shoot an ennemies legs even if he already tried.
I'd like my sorcerer to be able to stab someone else with his dagger even if he already make someone else bleed.
The idea of actions only balanced to be more powerfull than normal attacks and limited with a cooldown is really not interresting in my opinion and it doesn't create a big commitment towards them. It gives me the feeling that they are designed to replace normal attacks rather than to offer more tactical choices.
Normal attack OR enhanced normal attack is not a choice even if one is only available once/short rest.
Use costs and spell effects should be balancing those attacks more than cooldown.
I don't have much suggestions for now, that's the part I'm working on.
Here is in exemple what I did with the spring attack :
- Cost action + bonus actions + movement*0.5.
- Usable once per turn.
- Usable if you are not threatened (I tried to add - unusable on target closer than 3 meters but it does not work well)
- 1D4+mod. damage + a chance to prone.
=> it is usefull, it is more or less correctly balanced, it really is an additionnal action / choice given to players (especially melee).
And what I did with flourish (renamed opening attack if I'm not wrong)
- Cost an action
- Usable once per turn
- Usable if you are threatened
- Give advantage on the next attack.
=> it is usefull and it allow synergies without being complicated. It just use a basic mechanic (advantage) that is translated in the %to hit.
I guess that's it for now.
I really hope this system will be simplified and that weapons attacks will become more "common actions that you can do with your weapon" rather than (complicated) spells you can only use once per rest. In my opinion it currently just add another complex layer to a system that is already complex enough.
Last edited by Maximuuus; 11/01/23 01:03 PM.
